Yet again we have had a bid rejected, this time by a club at the bottom of League One. When is this club going to learn that if you are going to try and pick up some gems from the lower leagues, GEMS COST MONEY. So far this season we have an ever increasing trail of embarrassing headlines, being turned down firstly by Premier league and top rated championship players and now we have descended to having bids rejected by 2 league One clubs. Look at Bradshaw, look at Dack - we probably could have picked these up in the summer for 25% of the prices we were looking at now which just goes to show that the player identification is right, we are just cutting off our face to spite our nose with the offers. IF YOU WANT THE PLAYER, SPEAK TO THE CLUB AND DO A DEAL - NOT JUST PUT IN STUPIDLY POINTLESS OFFERS WHICH ARE QUITE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE TURNED DOWN AS IT DAMAGES THE CLUB'S REPUTATION WITH POSSIBLE FUTURE TARGETS...
Hardly embarrassing to have bids turned down, it's football. Presumably you'd also be moaning if we overspent for players, you have to go in lower than you want to spend initially.
Absolutely not - this is the simple law of supply and demand - they have the player, we want the player. There is no such thing as paying too much, how much is Gray worth now...? It is pretty clear that whoever is valuing our targets is not doing a good job as our valuations NEVER match the selling club's which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Now you might say that this is always going to be the case but if we put in a more realistic offer in the first place, then we might get to the point where the selling club will say actually, that is not far off, lets get around the table and thrash it out rather than have yet another headline in the paper telling the rest of the country that Bristol City have made another derisory offer, AGAIN.... WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR MANY YEARS NOW AND IT HAS FAILED EVERY TIME (EINSTEIN ANYONE), IT'S TIME FOR A NEW APPROACH... I repeat, the player identification is right so go and speak to the club and get the deal done...
We can discuss our problems forever and varying opinions will divide some of us and that's the purpose of a chat forum. Having gone through the wringer so many times in my Bristol City life I empathise with Prem's concerns because in my books we get more things wrong than we get right and we still continue to get decisions possibly right but seemingly never, if rarely, at the right time. Somewhat confusing but if we target a player who we believe will help us why on earth don't we go get them when the time is ripe for the picking rather than wait and until all and sundry are interested and the price inevitably rises beyond our budget. On another side I think our past poor history of revolving door managers and players refusing, for various reasons, to even consider Ashton Gate as their next home is leaving us in a position of being considered a can not club rather than a can do organisation. Decisions made by any club, and not just Bristol City, leave an imprint in future employee's minds and I think we have created a negative aura based on some of our dealings over the last 5 or 6 years. A sound footballing mind in Steve Coppell left rather swiftly before allowing himself to get his feet firmly under the table and the question as to why has lingered until this day. Many have said that there is something not quite right going on in the back halls of Ashton Gate and until that demon is fully exorcised then our troubles will continue. We have regrettably become a not destination of choice for many and until such time as the leadership at our club decide that we must to dispel that myth things won't change, but if the right decisions are now about to be made then perhaps we have a chance of achieving what our owner has set out on the table many times, too many times for some of us long term sufferers. Our future begins tomorrow, but the promise offered may take more time and strong decision making over the longer term.
But it begs the question why we are looking quite so far down the football pyramid to start with....? If we were safely in mid-table and had identified this anonymous Colchester player as 'one to develop for the future' then great. But that's not the case. If we secured him, the management would probably be expecting him to come in and work wonders and save us from dropping back into L1.
Because it fits in with the "young and hungry" philosophy which is not wrong in principle however it is a gamble as they are unproven. This is where the skill of the scout comes to the fore and is not to be underestimated however, where there is a general word around that this is a good player (Dack, Bradshaw, etc) then it is more likely that they will succeed. Nothing is guaranteed however, it is then all on the first club prepared to take a gamble. If we get it right and they are a success, then we look great judges but if it doesn't then we just moan on here non stop. It takes balls to take what is possibly a gamble but it we don't do it, then we are stuffed with no players. It is either that or we have to pay £20-30k a week for proven players. But whatever, it is completely and totally pointless to say we put in what we thought was a good offer because that is just our point of view...
A gamble is great Prem, but I feel we need to actually get a few more seasoned loans in to ensure survival as the paramount task. Having a punt on the side is great.
Oh I fully agree and said we needed 3 or 4 battle hardened, experienced pro's to save us this season the other day but, I am also a firm believer in the old maxim that if they are good enough, they are old enough. If you haven't got the faith in this, then don't buy...
Premiership experience can go a long way in supporting our way to better things and help along some of the less experienced players. Strength in midfield should be our buzzword.
The real issue for me is having a midfield that goes forward. The other night against West Brom was a throwback to the Johnson era when our midfield passed the ball sideways and back and never scored. The next phase in that progression was to completely do away with the midfield and get Fontaine and Nyatanga to bypass it altogether by hitting long balls all day.... We need a midfield that attacks the box and plays balls into the box early. Kodjia is equipped for this, IT IS HIS GAME
Coppell left because he wanted to, nothing to do with scary people in closets in the club. It wasn't exactly the first time he done it was it?
You're correct on that point ROD but somehow I can't ignore my opinion that something is not quite right. A midfield that goes forward rather than sideways or back would be a beautiful thing. Prem and I just hope someone who will make the crucial decisions has got that message.
To be fair to the club you go in with an initial bid that gives you some room for manouvere I assume that Colchester made it public - perhaps to make them look strong when they accept a higher bid - or maybe to get other clubs interested and start a bidding war It's so difficult buying players in this window
Perhaps we had appointed a manager by now it might help the cause. If Lansdown had decided he had enough of SC why oh why did they not have the replacement lined up? I wonder whether we are actually now interviewing or whether the plan was to give it to Pemberton until the end of the season. Whilst understanding the need for players surely the new manager should have been in place and deciding who they wanted. It appears the appointment of Ashton could backfire in that it will put off managers who prefer to have total say over all things football. Surely Pemberton as assistant manager has to take some of the blame over the piss poor form and results of this season? Surely he was part of the problem not the solution?
Probably true but surely you would speak to the club and establish their valuation and then talk around it until you get to where both sides want to be. We have proved it time and time again as a club that just putting in a bid rarely works (unless you offer £9m) If you really want the player, the only way to stop a bidding war is pay the asking price (or near to it) and assuming that the player is happy to come, this takes out the competition. I suspect the trouble is that with his unquestionable business acumen, Mr Lansdown is not used to paying full whack for anything but the club needs to learn that we are not the ones in pole position or the driving seat. We messed up in the summer and we now have to pay the price for that...
from another thread:- I cannot envisage SL having this mind set in the slightest, a man who fostered PMA and VFM back when I casually had an acquaintance with him back in the early 80's ! Speculate to accumulate ..
So which is it then..? We don't pay the asking price as we need value for money or Speculate to accumulate and DO....?
it is all 3, you cant separate them... you start with having a PMA you then decide it is right for you, VFM ( a lost opportunity is worse than buyers remorse ) and the answer or result is speculation for accumulation.
but we are not speculating, this is the whole point. We are clearly just offering what WE think the player is worth which is NEVER going to work, especially in this window. Fine you say, better that than the regret except for one thing, we have no new permanent players... Now, if we are just going to get some seasoned pro's in until the summer, that;s fine - just say so and we will know where we are but, don't go making pointless discounted valuation offers in the January transfer window....
PREM you are missing the point ... it is not about what we are doing it is about SL .. HOW IS MIND is set out from his business attitude.. he would have made no money if he didn't follow those 3 basic rules ... he was in finance not making pasties or piri piri sauce ... you assess your need you locate your product you enquire of the cost you determine if the product is worth the cost you make an offer or pay up ... offer can be cash or sell on or appearance money or play for country success is VFM .. on both sides .... the accumulation aspect is you have an asset, or it saves the fee's agents get everytime to loan etc, in the interim you hopefully get results ...
