The EU debate - Part III

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Watford_R said:
Like I said, showing yourself up.

What do you mean by people like me?

A lot of the most racist and xenophobic in society are those who don't have contact with other races or nationalities. That is just stupidity and intolerance based on nothing.
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Yup, you tell me I'm showing myself up and then offer nothing in reply...

People like you, as in people who think of immigrants collectively as this amazing addition to the country that have no downside at all. You're mates with a few you went to school with in a nice leafy area and you think they're representative of a massive chunk of the population.

Is that a fact or your opinion?
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Wrong, as usual, pal.

Those type of people need somebody to blame for their own sad lives. It can't possibly their fault that they're not rich, or successful, so they look for a scapegoat. Conveniently, there seem to be some people of a darker persuasion living nearby, so it must be their fault that life is so ****...!

Perhaps they ought to look elsewhere. Starting with the mirror!...
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Of course, Paco, not everyone can afford to save up enough money to retire in Spain, and I don't take that away from you, you've probably worked hard and earned it. But it's very easy to criticise these people once you have already dehumanised them due to your own bias and lack of awareness, and it's far easier to justify this behaviour when it's never been challenged and you've never sought to look out for the interests of the country as a whole, this is confirmed by your singular focus on economics.

If you have ever connected with these people you would know that they understand they will never be rich, they just want stability. A job to go to, a warm house to live in, a school for their kids and a doctor they can see when they need to. They don't play the social game like the middle class, they don't seek to impress neighbours and acquaintances with false ambition, they don't want to be know as super good people amongst their peers because they shared a [HASHTAG]#RefugeesWelcome[/HASHTAG] video on Facebook, they just want a life they can be happy and content with, and they just want to be able to pass what little they do have down to their children and grandchildren. They take pride in their communities with the strong bonds established amongst people they have something in common with, it's when you start changing the face of that community that they start to bite back because it was the only thing they had that worked really well.

I'll reiterate a point I made some time ago that I was laughed at over, in particular by you, humans are tribal. The noise that comes from the city isn't the song of the entire country.
 
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The Zlatan said:
Of course, Paco, not everyone can afford to save up enough money to retire in Spain, and I don't take that away from you, you've probably worked hard and earned it. But it's very easy to criticise these people once you have already dehumanised them due to your own bias and lack of awareness, and it's far easier to justify this behaviour when it's never been challenged and you've never sought to look out for the interests of the country as a whole, this is confirmed by your singular focus on economics.

If you have ever connected with these people you would know that they understand they will never be rich, they just want stability. A job to go to, a warm house to live in, a school for their kids and a doctor they can see when they need to. They don't play the social game like the middle class, they don't seek to impress neighbours and acquaintances with false ambition, they don't want to be know as super good people amongst their peers because they shared a [HASHTAG]#RefugeesWelcome[/HASHTAG] video on Facebook, they just want a life they can be happy and content with, and they just want to be able to pass what little they do have down to their children and grandchildren. They take pride in their communities with the strong bonds established amongst people they have something in common with, it's when you start changing the face of that community that they start to bite back because it was the only thing they had that worked really well.

I'll reiterate a point I made some time ago that I was laughed at over, in particular by you, humans are tribal. The noise that comes from the city isn't the song of the entire country.
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Oh, do **** off, you pompous, pretentious twat!..,
 
The Zlatan said:
Yup, you tell me I'm showing myself up and then offer nothing in reply...

People like you, as in people who think of immigrants collectively as this amazing addition to the country that have no downside at all. You're mates with a few you went to school with in a nice leafy area and you think they're representative of a massive chunk of the population.

Is that a fact or your opinion?
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Where have I ever said there's no downside? I've said that, overall, immigration benefits the country, which it clearly has and the age and skills of the indigenous population show the need for immigration to continue.

The immigrants I know from a variety of backgrounds, from different stages of my life are representative of immigrants as a whole- some great people, some ****s, most somewhere in between. Fortunately the few people I know who have hatred for another group of people based on nothing but blind prejudice aren't representative of many.
 
Archers Road said:
To some extent I think I do understand your fears. You think your culture and way of life is under threat - which it is, but not from immigrants. The world is changing fast, and white working class communities in the the UK and USA - and France, for example - are being left behind. Add to that, a world wide recession that replaces well paid jobs in manufacturing with low payed, de-unionised jobs in the service sector, and there's a lot of angry people about. Unless mainstream politicians grasp that, the conditions in which extremism can thrive will continue to be created. But how can mainstream politics address the problem when both Labour and the Tories are part of the problem in the first place?

I agree it's a problem, and one the Labour Party in it's current predicament doesn't look up to solving. On the other hand, there are a lot of thick ****ing racists in Britain, always have been, and now they have a voice. They should be told to shut the **** up. It's not immigrants who ****ed you over, it's unrestrained capitalism of the sort Margaret Thatcher opened the door to. Incidentally, when she did that, lots of people cheered as they bought their council houses and shares in British Gas. Now there's no ****ing council houses and all our public services are ripping us off for profit, let's blame the immigrants shall we? Well you know what, when you start with the racist crap, how about bollocks?
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No, mass immigration is a problem. Please stop pretending like it's just a symptom of an underlying issue, it's this sort of patronisation that further alienates and divides people - 'Oh, you just think that immigration is a problem, that's okay for you to think because you're not highly educated like me, but just know that you're wrong, okay little guy? And by the way, I know what's best for you! (Followed by distanced shouts of racist, xenophobe and bigot)' It's sickening.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy, this is all at the whim of globalisation, you'll sit there and pretend like there is a reasonable, best of both worlds solution, but there isn't, and then you'll continue to further degrade those issues through your left wing ideologies simply exacerbating the problem. It's not an outstretched hand of help, it's a power grab and you know it, that's how it works. Mass immigration keeps the left in power, to go against it would render them useless in the current climate.

You make a point I agree with, though I don't suspect you'll see it in the same way I do, but Labour and the Tories are two heads of the same beast, Corbyn has thrown a bit of a spanner in the works but the key difference between Labour and the Tories to me has always been that one is blue and the other is red. Both need to collapse and disappear so that new parties can be established that actually represents the key divide in this country.

Your second paragraph backs up what I said above. Mistakes were made in the past, but it was an inevitability of an ideology that is now fully endorsed by the left wing.
 
Impossible to take this Zlatan twat seriously given he's the son of an immigrant. He's clearly bat **** mental.
 
armchairblue said:
He's right though,mental or not.
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I skim read his posts. Life's too short to read the ramblings of a far right **** who makes Hitler seem a bit soft. Particularly when he's an immigrant himself. A bit like Hitler.

There's a degree of irony in the fact that the three most bigoted ****s on this thread are an immigrant, the husband of an immigrant and a simpleton who has a worse grasp of the English language than the foreigners he's so scared of <laugh>
 
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Stan said:
I skim read his posts. Life's too short to read the ramblings of a far right **** who makes Hitler seem a bit soft. Particularly when he's an immigrant himself. A bit like Hitler.
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You should read his posts.... Like him or not he's the most intelligent poster i've came across on this
site.
 
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