Wenger's Record - Is it really that Bad?
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...gunners-season
Blog article had this statistic, which I think makes interesting reading.
"[Arsenal's] 15 seasons pre-Wenger: 5th, 10th, 6th, 7th, 7th, 4th, 6th, 1st, 4th, 1st, 4th, 10th, 4th, 12th, 5th. Part season with Wenger: 3rd."
"14 full seasons with Wenger: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th."
Its about where we're at now, not what happened in the past.
Science adjusts its beliefs based on what is observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved. (Tim Minchin)
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer gods than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours. (Stephen F. Roberts)
Very good article. Puts some perspective on the naive temptation to clamour that all is wrong at Arsenal.
"It is a game where sweeping conclusions arise from the narrowest of margins"
I've been saying this all season. The margins are fine, the difference between winning and losing can be the width of the crossbar. We have never been that far off this season. True that we've been our own worst enemy's at times, but that also tells you that it's in our control to make sure we dictate games. Rarely have we been outplayed in games this season. Most of our disappointing results have come from what we have done (or not done) Not because the opposition have played us off the park.
Some claim that we are at Rock bottom, in a full blown crisis - For me that is a classic example of catastrophising, arrived from making such sweeping generalisations and not seeing that actually, most of what we do, we do well and that it only takes, as Arteta said, 'getting the small details right' to ensure that we win. The Blackburn game encapsulates this perfectly.
Last edited by PISKIE; 06/02/2012 at 11:01 AM.
I'm no Wenger basher (ooh-er) but those stats will look considerably worse at the end of the season when there's a 5th-7th added to the list. Especially as it will possibly herald the departure of RVP too.
I never apologise. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.
Sixth (possibly seventh this evening) in the league
Seventeen points off the pace after 24 games
Unconvincing wins throughout the season
No big signing in years
Best players sold on regular basis (RVP is next)
Trophyless in seven years
One win against a side higher than us all season (Chelsea 3-5)
Nobody is slating Wenger's record at the club which during his peak years was one of the best in Europe. But there has been nothing to cheer about for several years now and no sign of a golden generation of young footballers at the club either. It is perfectly conceivable that the club will finish seventh this season and be out of Europe all together! Fourth on the other hand would be a real achievement from the current position - not what the fans expected after the move to te Emirates (and it's extortionate ticket prices).
Originally Posted by PNEawf
do remember that when you decide to wind up Spurs fans
or i might think your showing signs of hypocrisy
'Allow me to tickle your catastrophe'
'Evil to him who evil thinks'
'My enemy's enemy is my friend'
My Spurs shopping list :- Al Habsi of Wigan
Ever Banega of Valencia to replace Modders if he goes.
As these members have said, it isn't about what Arsene has achieved, it is about now and where we are now is borne of a catalogue of events stemming from under-investment in the team. This in turn has made first for a lack of trophies and our inability to reach the final stages of major competitions, save for last year's Carling Cup. Yes, that cup which hardly anyone claims to want. If we not only fail to make the Top Four this year but end up 6th or lower, then the progression from Arsene's best years would not have been more evident.
While there is much that is not known about our club, whether it is Arsene who is unwilling to spend or that his hands are tied by the club or that the club negotiate badly it remains that we are no longer fighting at the very top any more. However in answer to your question Toledo, no the record is not that bad. Overall it is much better as far as stats and numbers go but those numbers only tell a part of the story and is no pointer to the present. Add on this year's possible result and we could sadly be a club that is in a slide and nothing enough seems to be done to halt it. That is why a lot of fans are unsettled and it seems players too.
Last edited by Robin van Bergkamp; 06/02/2012 at 01:16 PM.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won.
There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.
Think of it - always.
Mahatma Gandhi
To Arsene - Thanks for the memories ; To Ivan and Stan - Thanks but no thanks
I am sure Wenger himself knows his team over the past few seasons, has fallen well short of the high standard he has set. Wenger is a clever man and a winner, so I doubt he would be happy with his record over the past 6 seasons. No doubt he loves the club, and if someone had told him this run would happen 6/7 years ago, he would have thought they were crazy!
I don't think there is little point in dressing the record up as anything but mediocre.
At least I can tell my children I witnessed Arsenal's Golden Age!
It's true we hav'nt won a trophy in seven years but the we were extremely close to winning the Champions league and also the League cup twice in that time.(reaching the finals)
In 2009 we were pretty damn close to winning the league also.
So with a little luck Wenger's record over the last few years could have looked a considerably better.
No it's not a bad record, in fact it is good. The problem is all the success that he achieved early on. When something like this happens, it raises peoples expectations to unrealistic levels. He has done a very good job since the creation of our new stadium.
While it is true that we have been close to silverware on occasion, it still is the case especially in the EPL that we went through a string of performances which were not good enough. That succession of drawn games in 2008 and then falling away from contention when we enjoyed a healthy lead a year or so later. If we perhaps had one or two strong players who could at the very least hold the team together, it may have made the difference. Yes I would agree we had those high points even if we didn't quite grab the eventual prize. However over the past year in particular, our form has been far from even those years when we were ' nearly there '.
As said here and elsewhere, Arsene Wenger may not be entirely responsible for this but there is a part of it which is his share.
When I despair, I remember that all through history the ways of truth and love have always won.
There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.
Think of it - always.
Mahatma Gandhi
To Arsene - Thanks for the memories ; To Ivan and Stan - Thanks but no thanks
Politics aside, I'm astounded anyone can refer to his overall record as mediocre....
It's a very good record when looked at overall. However, this highlights the frustrating nature of the last few years, when, with a bit of investment, we could be seeing a few '1sts' and '2nds' in the last 6 final positions.
He is the most sucessful manager we have ever had.
You must have forgotten the 8-2 masscare or the 3-4 at Blackburn the 2-3 at Swansea, the 0-2 to Lpool, the 2-3 to Spurs.
We have been the outplayed so often this season it is becoming an embarrassment.
Enjoyable as it was to watch the ganme on saturday it does not compensate for the many woeful performances we have had to endure.
you can't compare the past with now, why? We have a 60,000 seater stadium right now, and pay the highest ticket prices in England, therefore sitting 6th in the table, constantly ending up 4th, going 8 seasons without a league title, is not good enough based on these facts. We didn't move to the Emirates, and to pay the highest ticket prices in England to be fighting for 4th spot and to be going 7 seasons without a trophy.
By all means if we were still in Highbury and not charging the highest ticket prices then maybe you could say it's ok, but we aren't now are we, we built ourselves into a top club thanks to Wenger and so we set standards, and right now the standards we have are not good enough. You can make all the excuses in the world, but the fact we pay the HIGHEST ticket prices gives me the right to say that the return value is absolute fking sh!t to the max.
Wengers record WAS amazing. Based on the last 7 seasons it is not.
Science adjusts its beliefs based on what is observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved. (Tim Minchin)
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer gods than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours. (Stephen F. Roberts)
Spurs have done NOTHING now, ending up 3rd in the season above us for the first time in 15 season doesn't count for sh!t, stop deluding yourselves spud boy. Everton ended above Liverpool in 2005, did that establish them as the new top force in Liverpool? Come back to us in 14 seasons when you constantly end above us, constantly play in Europe, and go on a good run of winning trophies, until then, all you have is one season ending 3rd and above us, LOL to even think that compares with the success we have had over you is laughable.do remember that when you decide to wind up Spurs fans
or i might think your showing signs of hypocrisy
or when you have gone a whole season UNDEFEATED!
At least I can tell my children I witnessed Arsenal's Golden Age!
or when they win the league at the Emirates.
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