Off Topic 12 dead in paris shooting

Must every thread be turned into a punfest?

 

Think it must do...it must be written in the rules...

 

I hope you don't drop your Snickers for just anybody, Vern?

 

It's not the law, but the problem is that there are a lot of Smarties on here....

 

Maybe we need a Time Out, can't we give it a Twirl at least until to-Moro?

 

Since Stroller's complaint I'm caught Twix punning and reverting to sensible debate...

 

I'm not sure it's actually in the rules, but some people do seem to Revel in doing it.

 

at least this thread hasn't gone curly wurly

 

It's not my pa's fault that I enjoy punning, it's Mars.....

 

I've not commented on this thread as yet despite thoroughly enjoying reading it and the diverse opinions and arguments its genenerating, but I could offer a take on Bobs point here.
I am not a religious man per se, but I have had both my kids christened and therefore accepted into the "Family" of the church.
My reasoning was this - whether you believe or not in an all seeing god/allah/whatever, the thing the bible does do is give a general guide on how to live a good life and be a decent person e.g the ten commandments. This can't be a bad thing for the kids surely?
Also some have alluded on here that kids shouldn't be taught religion in schools so that they can make a decision on it in later life, my feeling is that they should be at least shown what it is about (some bible tales are very much akin to Grimms tales or standard bed time reading on the moral compass) and can therefore make an INFORMED decision in later life.
Why should I impose my non religious views on my kids any more than someone imposing their religious ones?
Let the kids see, hear and learn for themselves I say, only that way can they really decide what's right for them.

 

Thanks for interrupting the punning Congleton.

My parents had widely differing views on religion. My mother was a staunch Christian and church-goer and through her influence myself and my siblings were all christened. My father was a strong Socialist and would have no truck with organised religion, but I do recall visits from the Vicar to our house when he and my dad would have political discussions where they were broadly in agreement - Jesus Christ being the original Socialist, of course! I don't recall either of my parents trying to persuade me one way or another, but I think I made my mind up in my early teens that there almost certainly was no God, but that religion could be a positive influence in setting out a 'Christian' way of behaving towards one's fellow man.

I think that the concept of 'faith schools' is abhorrent, but at the same time think that it is necessary for children to be taught 'about' religions (plural) in school, because religions, sadly, remain major influences in the world. If taught without prejudice children can make their own minds up.

 

Teach comparative religion in schools certainly, induce/indoctrinate kids into a particular religion - no thanks. My daughter is doing religious Studies GCSE with my full blessing (pun intended). Scandalously its the nearest thing to philosophy that 14-16 year olds can study in this country.

Do I need a Bible as a general guide on 'how to be good' - I doubt it, but of course in our culture/society it's difficult to have avoided it. Of course the bible also contains incitements to misogyny, homophobia, genocide and slavery, as well as the 'nice' bits. Ethics and morality existed before the Bible, Torah, Koran etc. Not many societies have been based on stealing, punishment free murder and perjury. Here's Hitchens C on the 10 Commandments:

 

Misery!

 

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to point me to the juicy bits to save me having to read the rest of the Good Book...?

 

Nah, the only way to tackle it is from Genesis to Revelations, all in one sitting, preferably in Latin or Greek. That way you will understand where the truly looney stuff in Revelations comes from.

Oh, all right, I'll give you a starter:

"The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that EVERY inclination of the thoughts of his heart was ONLY evil ALL the time. The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. So the LORD said, 'I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth — men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air — for I am grieved that I have made them.'" Genesis Chapter 6. So, according to the Bible, God was the first genocidal maniac, and he took out the animals too. Quite right, the sinful bastards. Especially those hedgehogs. Interesting that he hasn't had the energy to do this again, they must have been really naughty in those days before literacy.

 

if people don't think God is into wanton destruction they should read this...he positively Revels in it (Sorry, Stroller)

 

I get your point SB, it ain't all good in there. My 2 boys are only little at the moment so the "little book of Bible stories" tends to contain things like the loaves and fishes (good example of sharing) and such like and perhaps chooses to swerve the story of Cain and Abel where one brother murders the other, however my belief still stands that it doesn't do any harm to open their minds to the possibility of there being something there in the first instance and then letting them make the previously mentioned informed decision at a later date. My choice as a parent has been to open all paths to them rather than set specific road blocks to suit my own beliefs

 

Well put. My Dad, a socialist atheist and my Mum, an agnostic who likes churches and choirs, had me christened (probably just a social habit in 1961) and for a time sent me to something called Crusaders, where a few kids heard bible stories and played a bit of football. I reckon my parents just wanted me out of the way for a couple of hours. Harmless stuff, though it may have made me the twisted weirdo I am today. I've never had any problem with my kids learning about this stuff. They follow my views, because that's the rule in my house.....if only. Nah, they show no religious inclination at the moment (at ages 14 and 18), but if they did I'm sure they would be prepared to enter into robust debate about it. Because the true faith of my family is arguing, endlessly and pointlessly, in order to have the last word. It's ****ing exhausting, but good fun.

You are right, you can edit the New Testament (or more accurately the Gospels) down to a few uplifting or moral parables. Here's a different take on the Good Samaritan:

 

as a child I was given a childrens bible by an aunt
thouroughly enjoyed the old testament with the battles and killings etc
found the new testament really boring
so just read the first half uber

should the ever present god be reading this then of course I loved the bit about jesus better than the other stuff