Grand Prix thread 2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Chat and Predictions

It's all just a cluster.

 

Which is worse?
Bumping someones wheels at 30mph, which might crack a bit of fibre, or suddenly veering your car halfway around a corner to purposefully aim it at someone to force them off track so they can't overtake you at 100mph+ whilst racing?

 

The one that involves purposely colliding with somebody because you can't control it when you've lost your ****.

 

I would say both constitute that, "how dare he pass me, grrr,", although the 2nd one is far more likely to kill someone than the first.
I've not excused Vettel for it, there's no excuse, but I've seen Hamilton do worse and get his arse-licked for it by people who're calling for DSQ and bans for Vettel. The collision is moot, if I intentionally fire a gun at someones head and miss, I'm still going to jail.
In this case (azer) it isn't so much the contact that I have the problem with, it was a nothing tap at slow speed, it was the act of driving alongside in the first place. All this 'car as a weapon' is bias hyperbole, no one was in danger other than a bruised ego (though considering the egos involved it could be a very large bruise). I think it's been dealt with fairly satisfactorily considering the context, though I won't complain if he gets a 5 place grid drop at Austria (or w/e GP follows the FIA meeting)

 

Button has called for the matter to be dropped.

 

Button tweets pt1.

 

Button tweets pt2.

 

Button tweets pt3.

 

Its really simple

vettel broke about 4 rules.

he in effect overtook under safety car and he bumped wheels cos he was ****ing about out of control.

He got the highest punishment short of a black flag and got points on his license

the hamilton fan only want him punished more cos they are worried he can compete for some reason.

I think these two are set up for a ding dong i want to see!


oh and no matter what anyone says hamilton coasted out of that corner which IMO was dangerous to every car following him as it would concertina up the pack he's lucky vettel hit him cos if someone else had his vettel due to him having to slam on it would be him with the 10 second stop go pen.

I clearly heard his team trying to remind him of the 10 car lengths rule and trying to stop him ****ing about.. he did so anyway... just like a michael schumacher wuld have to gain every advantage. theres NO SAINTS here

Let the race FFS. I want to see them wheel to wheel and who dares wins racing.

I don't want to see races decided in the stewards back room by who has most influence.

 

The problem is that Vettel has been effectively under caution since Mexico last year and his rant at Charlie. His loss of control was part of a pattern of behaviour that he needs to learn to kerb before someone gets hurt. Nothing to do with it being Hamilton, everything to do with motorsport not being a place for people who can't control their anger.

 

and yet so many champions fall into that category, certainly Hunt, Prost, Senna and Schumacher do.

As to Mexico, he's was bang on the money regarding Whiting and Verstappen.

 

yeah but...

its self destructive ultimately and they all need to man up and get on with it and stick him in a sand trap to learn him a good lesson.

 

I remember when Kvyat's torpedo attacks set him off in China and Russia in 2016. Is his rage becoming a frequent appearance due to the pressures of the Ferrari + Baby Schumi dream? Or something external to F1.

 

Id say red bull telling him they were not setting car up to suit him when the regs changed started it and rhe move ro ferrari didnt really work out as he thought especially last year.

He never exploded like that with webber

 

I wasn't calling for a ban or DSQ, but they'd have been totally justified in showing him the black flag and he's bloody lucky he didn't get one to be fair. I'm all for hard racing but what Vettel did was just plain silly, and despite the slow speeds it was still dangerous. Had one of them had a blowout off the restart thanks to a cut tyre, that could have caused all kinds of chaos.

Regardless of all that, it happened, it added some extra spice to the rest of the season and on we go. What I'm more fed up with now is how it was handled. They appeard to be letting it go or coming back after the race to deal with it right up until Hamilton had to come in to fix the headrest, then it comes across like they panic and pull Vettel in for a stop/go to save themselves the problem of Vettel on the top step and now trying to mop up after the event.

I'm hoping Vettel avoids a ban, he may get points stripped from Baku or he may just get a telling off, but for the sake of the title fight I hope it's not a severe punishment.

 

There is no doubt that Vettel should be retrospectively disqualified. I don't want to hand the advantage to Hamilton, I do want to see that this behaviour is very clearly stated as unacceptable, not only to the current F1 drivers but the younger drivers who will be F1 drivers in the future.
If Hamilton then goes on to win the championship he needs to do so by a points margin that shows he won irrespective of the disqualification. I think that is a count of more than 14 points over Vettel at the end of the season.
Also, I had become a fan of Vettel (also of some other drivers), but not now. He is behaving like a petulant child who needs to be given boundaries. I wonder if he was spoilt just a bit too much at RB, I somehow suspect those years have something to do with his current behaviour.

 

I think a retrospective disqualification would be entirely justified. It would also send out the right message to anyone already connected with motor racing, as well as – in particular – young drivers aspiring to become professional.

However, due to F1's and FIA's hitherto shadowy, opaque politicking, I very much doubt any penalty will be that severe. Most likely is a mere rap on the knuckles: a minor grid drop.

 

maybe the blatant favouritism shown by the officials towards the 2 media darlings has got to him, years of watching people get away with worse and having their arses licked for it. "oh, what a great bit of driving that was, swerving halfway through a corner to forced someone off that track, it was sublime"

 

Well, perhaps you've hit a nail on the head, Big Earn [noted from you updated signature! ;-)]
You've mentioned "get(ting) away with worse and having their arses licked for it". Presumably then, you think something was substantially wrong in order to draw such a conclusion?

If the answer is 'no', surely there is no argument to answer?
If the answer is yes, you must surely agree a line must be drawn?

Either we have rules or we don't. Historical moments may or may not suit particular arguments or partisan opinion but that is ultimately beside the point if we are at any point to address a problem. Objectivity can only ever address matters at hand. This is why – as I've said ever since the earliest days of my membership in BBC's 606 forum – we must always endeavour to evaluate individual events according to rules and circumstance which exist at the time, without recourse to past histories which distort the present either for or against any argument of a present or ongoing issue.

Either we have rules and enforce them, or we don't. And if it's the latter, there can be no reasonable complaint about historical events.

This is quite different to bearing a grudge about long-term historic events, even if they might be considered to have been totally wrong. Indeed, the only way to address the possibility of future aberration is to address the 'now' – and not doing so actually promotes future aberration!

 

What are we drawing parallels with here? I'm not sure what we're licking bums over vs Vettel acting like a bit of a knob.

What he did was silly. It wasn't racing. Had they had some full on wheel to wheel racing clash then fine, but that was a bit knobish even for the best of us.

It is great though, from a title fight point of view. Phwoar!!!