Arsenal vs Chelsea Match Thread.

Interesting point, with some validity. Although I disagree with you about Welbeck, Xhaka and Mustafi. All three are quality players. Xhaka needs to learn to be disciplined, but that will come.

 

Conceding less than 40 goals is a statistical trait of a PL team that finishes
TOP 4, let alone champions. If you think you will not reach that, your CL slot
may be lost for the first time.

 

Granted, I haven't seen nearly enough of you to expect my opinion to carry more weight than an Arsenal fan, but Welbeck's injury record will surely limit him to substitute appearances? He certainly isn't good enough to challenge for top honours; if he was - United wouldn't have sold him, and certainly not to a direct rival!

Like I said, Xhaka does look like a decent player but surely Wanyama was the more sensible and indeed more cost-effective option? More than proven at PL level and cost a fraction of what represented an enormous risk (and still does unless he can sort out the intimate relationship he seems to have with the colours yellow and red). That's all I'm saying: Wenger consistently chooses the more complicated approach: in his team selection, in his tactics, in his transfer strategy...to an outside fan all of it looks like one big 'look at me I've stuck to my principles for 20 years and there's still life in the old hag'. It's sad really because he has produced some truly outstanding teams and football that even Spurs fans will stand up to applaud. But his ship sailed long, long ago.

 

Welbeck is a quality player, whether his injures will limited him, time will tell. But he's come back into the team looking sharp. Personally I think he should start at the moment. Wanyama is a decent player, but I still rate Xhaka and I think he will develop into the better player. His vision and passing are far better than Wanyama's. Vieira was often criticised for his indiscipline in his early Arsenal career, and it's something that Xhaka needs to get to grips with. But he can become a really important player for Arsenal.

As for Wenger, I think his time is done. He's been given ample opportunity to turn things around and push on, but he just doesn't seem to be able to get us over the line anymore. We have become predictable and he has never really addressed the weak mentality that we seem to take into some games. I think he should move on, but only as soon as we can find a suitable replacement. I don't want him to go simply for the sake of change, we have to manage the change properly. So if that means nobody is available this summer, then Wenger should sign a contract extension until we can make that switch.

 

By this I can only assume you see his 'early career' as the first 8.5 years

 

I cannot see Wenger with a 4 week termination clause in his contract.

 

I switched off the game after the Bellarin incident. Yet another hit that wouldn't be allowed in an MMA bout, yet people on there clearly don't think concussive brain damage qualifies as a serious injury.

How can Xhaka's challenge be considered dangerous yet that blow to the head isn't. Not only should the goal not have stood, it should have been a straight red card, for serious foul play. A careless and reckless challenge, likely to cause serious injury.

Not only was it likely to cause serious injury, it did cause serious injury. The referee should also be suspended, pending an investigation into his competence.

This is why England are crap at football and always will be.

 

I take it that this is sarcasm !!! Alonso with a run and jump (hands in the air as is normal) wanted that ball more than Bellerin. After listening to pundits, experts, et al, all weekend, i can only remember two people saying it was a foul...and one of them was Arsene ! The truth (unfortunately for Arsenal) is that this very incident sums up why it's "groundhog day" for Arsenal around this time every year. It's no mystery that Stoke's favourite home fixture every season is yourselves. I hope this post is not taken as a wum as it's not meant to be. One of my all time favourite players was a Gooner...Chippy Brady, the man with the educated left foot.

 

He hit him behind the ear with an elbow, either of which is illegal in MMA.

I realize most Chelsea fans have no brains so brain damage isn't serious, but I agree we see game after game that referees don't uphold the laws of the game when Arsenal are the victims.

We keep getting these mindless phrases like "He just wanted it more". What that means is the coward led with his forearm, from his blindside, knocking the defender out of the way with a savage blow to the head knocking him out so he could get position on the ball.

It is just pathetic that we are even debating this. It could have been so much more serious. A knee high two-footed challenge is nowhere near as dangerous as that challenge, concussing an opponent with a leading forearm.

It is so dangerous, it is illegal in combat sports.

 

Honestly, Ive seen too many kids in the emergency room with concussion, because kids are watching this stuff on the TV and think this is how you challenge for a header. Build up a head of speed and fly in to a header with your forearm protecting you and impacting the head of your opponent.

Believe me it is a serious issue, and it is a disgrace that we are even debating it. You wait until a kid of yours is on a morphine drip for concussion, and the challenge wasn't even considered a foul.

Right now you are safer putting a kid in rugby than football.

 

To be fair I agree, the game should have been stopped he was clearly knocked briefly unconscious.

I myself have had a few concussions over the years (martial arts) and I know what this kind of injury is like

On one hand I think 9/10 times this would have been given as a foul outside of the box, however I am in two minds about it. Players should be allowed to jump with their 'arms up'. I dont think the collision was intential, it's just a full contact sport and these things happen.

 

It's very difficult to remove the physicality part of the game in football. From playing in the highest forms to a 5 a side down hackney marshes, guys will always carry a few hits. People will take it ultra seriously even if it's a meaningless game down your local leisure centre. I've lost count how many injuries my mates have picked up trying to be "competitive". The majority of the time it wasn't intentional.

 

Sorry, but you are all talking bullshit. It is perfectly possible to remove brain damage from the game. Head shots are not allowed in any other contact sport. Any attempt to hit someone round the head in rugby, American football or ice hockey is enforced strictly and absolutely.

It is absolute bollocks that you cant head a ball without leading with a forearm at head-height. 90% of countries round the world players don' need to jump like that and that challenge is absolutely not allowed so why in England? Are players in England deformed or something?

As I say, it is completely why England is **** at football and always will be and it is why our league is deteriorating. Games are just a brawl nowadays with no skill whatsoever. Hate to say it, but Hazard was right. Players get into our league and they simply don't know what to do. there is extreme violence and because the officials let most of it go, none of the players have a clue how to play against it. It makes the games a lottery and the officials look like morons.

When you let 3 elbows to the head and 3 scything tackles go by, then brandish a red for one of them, nobody knows what the hell is going on? Trouble is, so many players and teams have got used to the craziness, the FA couldn't get teams to play by the rules even if they wanted them to.

I've watched football, like most of you for getting on for 50 years, and it has never been been less entertaining, static defences, grabbing , holding, most of every team's best players injured, all the players scared of holding onto the ball, in-case they get a leg-breaking tackle.

No entertainment value whatsoever.

 

You do realise skillful players have never had it so good in terms of physical violence. Go back 10, 20, 30 years ago and its gets worse in terms of physicality every decade.

Teams/Players are more tactical and athletic so bus parking has become more popular against the big sides. Players can now keep up and make cynicals tugs so maybe you think thats less entertaining.

I dont think english footballl is particularly physical. You get bad fouls in all leagues. I would prefer our version (like most of the world) where you dont get a swan dive every 5 minutes in la liga and the ref blowing up for the most pathetic of touches unless you are barca going in for a challenge.

 

Nope - the only way to remove potential brain injury would be to. 1. Remove headers 2. Remove all physical contact.

 

Struggling to think of a single player in recent years who has suffered brain damage as a result of it being a contact sport. The reaction to Ryan Mason's fractured skull just shows you how rare an occurrence these incidents really are.

I'm in 100% agreement with Bobby. The play-acting and olympic-level diving that blights the continental games is frankly nauseating. The PL is the most popular league in the world for good reason: it is the most entertaining. The added physical edge gives the smaller teams that little bit of a step-up and they are often able to frustrate the big teams off the pitch. The cricket scorelines that happen regularly in Spain and Germany don't happen here for that very reason.

Bottom line is, the longer Arsenal fans continue to swallow Wenger's bullshit, the longer it will take to solve the real problems.

 

Spot on post CK

 

Sorry, but the only bullshit that is being talked here is by your good self. If you have been watching football for 50 years as you said you have, you do remember Norman "bite your legs" Hunter, Ron "chopper" Harris and Tommy Smith ? Almost all the physicality has been lost in the modern game and the players are diving and feigning injuries by the new time. I think what has you riled so much is that, above any other team, Arsenal have gained a reputation for being soft and you have watched your team being bullied out of too many games in the last 10 seasons or so. I would suggest that until you start getting players that can look after themselves you should switch to watching Basketball. P.S. In post 89 you said " I realize most Chelsea fans have no brains so brain damage isn't serious ". If you really wanted a serious conversation on the subject of brain damage, comments like that don't lend themselves to civil debate now do they ?

 

There may be a few boxing fans that would argue against that.

I don't know what football you have watched for the last 50 years but I doesn't sound like association football, either here or the continent.
It is perfectly natural and even necessary for a person to raise their arms when the jump (unless you are doing the pogo), if a player gets a running jump at a high ball and is good enough to reach head and shoulders above his opponent where do you expect his arms to go?
If you really have been watching football for almost 50 years you will know that todays game is almost contactless compared with the past. Most injury's today are caused by over trained muscles putting strain on tendons and ligaments plus the lack of protection from the carpet slippers we call boots that give no protection in the slightest 50/50 tackle.

By the way, most people think players hold onto the ball too long and slow attacks down, I wish it was your way it would lead to much faster play.