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Charlton

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by Cliftonville, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Currently reading a book about Bobby Charlton, and within he mentions his lack of tackling ability.

    For those old enough ... Given that football was looked upon as a physical men's game how was this lack of physicality perceived at the time?
     
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  2. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

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    Well he was a Centre Forward, so I don't believe that Sir Matt Busby would have been too worried about his lack of prowess in the tackling department.
     
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  3. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Charlton surely played in midfield ??????
     
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  4. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

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    I thought he was a Centre Forward for Man U and England ?
    He wore a No. 9 shirt which all Centre Forwards did in those days, although he did play deeper that the likes of his contemporaries I suppose i.e Peter Osgood, Martin Chivers, Mick Jones and co.
     
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  5. Redprintt

    Redprintt Well-Known Member

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    Bobby was a goal scoring midfielder, he left tackling to others, Nobby Stiles for one, Paddy Crerand for another. And before them it was the great Duncan Edwards.
    Really sad to hear about Nobby's deteriorating health.
     
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  6. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    This is midfield.

    At its best.
     
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  7. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

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    So was John Aston the Centre Forward in that team of the late 60's when they beat Benfica at Wembley to win the European Cup ?
    Then there was Brian Kidd as well who was also a forward at the time for Man U ?
     
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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  8. BrightredRickster

    BrightredRickster Well-Known Member

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    Brian Kidd was the centre forward in that team. Aston played on the wing.
    Charlton was always very conscious of his lack of physical aggression, which was why he took such an interest in Rugby League.
    It never bothered Sir Matt, nor SAR. Why should it when he was one of the world's finest players who could stick one in from 35 yards at the drop of a hat.
    This is a guy who could make Beckham look like a League one player, back in the days when footballs were four times heavier than what they are now (and that was when they were dry). It never stopped Bobby though. Only Paul Gascoigne would have come anywhere near Bobby Charlton as far as being a world class midfield match-winner

    Nobby Styles is possibly the most under-rated player in that team of '66.
    A world class hard man, with a pass of laser accuracy and a source of inspiration to all those around him, to say nothing of the other hard men in the old first division. Mackay, Harris, Hunter, Billy Bonds, Peter Storey…they would all have been lifted by Nobby's performances.
    Neither England nor Manchester United would have won trophies in the 60s without him

    PS Wonderful clips those Red Alert.
    Bobby dazzler was without doubt the greatest footballer our country has ever produced
     
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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  9. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    In his book he recalls his first proper tackle he won being in 1970 v Romania.

    Which is why I curiously asked what the perception of his less than combative approach was. Remembering 70 - 80's football those who were not prepared to leave a mark on opponents / shed skin would often be maligned as fannies.
     
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  10. BrightredRickster

    BrightredRickster Well-Known Member

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    "Only Paul Gascoigne would have come anywhere near Bobby Charlton as far as being a world class midfield match-winner"
    Take a look at Red Alert's Bobby Charlton clips
     
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  11. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    I have watched it, and more besides, but until I started reading My Manchester United years I had no knowledge that his tackling was by self admission on the very poor side.

    Indirectly things I have read and heard about Paul Gascoigne link him to Sir Bobby. They despite being polar opposites in character share traits - A bloody minded approach to their training and improvement in their early years. They got that good because they did more , sacrificed more, wanted it more ... The rest of us mere mortals don't.
     
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  12. Redprintt

    Redprintt Well-Known Member

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    Aston was my man of the match in the 68 European Cup Final.
    He couldn't wipe Best's boots but on the night he was far more influential than George Best.
    My Dad got us £4 tickets behind the Royal Box and won't ever forget the great Matt Busby consoling a tearful Bobby Charlton at the whistle. Or Eusebio congratulating Stepney for a wonder save midway through the game.
     
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  13. wizered

    wizered Ol' Mucker
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  14. wings-of-a-crow

    wings-of-a-crow Well-Known Member

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    not quite relevant to bobby Charlton I know , but searching English players I really rate and came across this, really puts most of todays managers to shame.
     
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  15. BrightredRickster

    BrightredRickster Well-Known Member

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    Total dedication, a hunger to be the best, the drive to make it happen.
    Also the talent that sets them apart.
    These qualities are all too rare in British players, but the South Americans, the Germans, the Italians and Spanish all seem to trot these world stars out on a conveyor.
    Of course the South Americans have a lot to get away from, and football is their ticket out of the ghetto, but in Bobby Charlton's case it was the horror of watching his team mates die around him that drove him on.
    That must have had a staggering effect upon the young Charlton.
    Gascoigne could have been another Maradonna, and he was well aware that he was special but the injury ended that, and it messed up his head at the same time.
    Such a shame for Gazza, and for England
     
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  16. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    I have my opinion why the Germans and Spanish create so many players of exceptional standard - Access to opportunity, quality coaching and quality practice. British kids don't ...

    I do not believe that English kids actually will work less, its a deep ingrained distrust of skill and coaching v running lots, shifts and graft that holds a nation back.
     
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  17. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    I've watched this about 20 times over the years, love it. I don't agree with everything he says, and to be fair, in some ways he was a bit of a dick, but absolutely great entertainment, and an extraordinary manager. The good thing about being a bit intimidating and a bit humiliating to players, is that when you give credit to someone, that person will know they've earned it.

    I'm not one who yearns for managers of the past, football has moved on so much that they're probably incompatible, but Brian Clough is a legend and one hell of an entertaining man.
     
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  18. Angelicnumber16

    Angelicnumber16 Well-Known Member

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    No one else has, or ever will take what was basically a second rate, struggling, second division side and turn them into double European Cup Winners using basically and largely other peoples cast offs.

    I've read the Peter Taylor book some years ago where he talks about the likes of John Robertson being overweight, having a penchant for Bacon sandwiches and he was also a heavy smoker.
    Kenny Burns, a mis-fit at Birmingham who spent most of his time and money at Perry Bar dog track.
    Larry Lloyd - cumbersome centre half bought from Coventry and who was playing in the reserves.
    Ditto Dave Needham, Martin O'Neill, John O'Hare,Gary Birtles, John McGovern, Colin Barratt. The quality players Clougie brought in were undoubtedly Shilton, Anderson (through the Forest ranks) and Trevor Francis, but the whole story is beyond Roy of the Rover stuff.

    Cloughie was a God to me and was too good for England and I loved watching that Forest side over those few years.

    Even then the FA were total dicks.
    God bless you Brian.
     
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  19. BCFCRob

    BCFCRob Well-Known Member

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    Brian Clough and The FA would never have worked. I wasn't even alive at the time, so it sounds daft coming from me, but The FA don't seem to have changed and it's a relationship which would have only gone downhill. But in a way that's nice. There's something romantic about the 'what if', and also there's the lack of a massive stain on his CV from the inevitable failure with England (inevitable only because everyone fails with England).
     
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  20. BrightredRickster

    BrightredRickster Well-Known Member

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    Sir Alf Ramsey
     
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