Off Topic European Debate Thread

Regardless of if you like the express or not it's still an interesting read.

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ment-Immigrant-Saliman-Barci-national-decline

 

It is a simple point. TTIP highlights that many of the arguments put forward by the pro eu lobby are complete fallacies. TTIP highlights their rampant hypocrisy.

 

I did pick a poor example to be fair but it doesn't discount the fact that he constantly copies and pastes entire articles with no commentary whatsoever, and just expects that to stand as his point. I could do the same to prove anything, it doesn't mean my argument has any justification.

Must admit I'd heard of this but wasn't familiar whatsoever. I'm in work at the moment so have only skim-read but it's undeniably concerning.

 

THE ADVERT which is prevalent on the media is using the NHS as an example

a new hospital would cost £350m ...and that is the amount we pay pro rata per week of the £13b annual payment to EUROPEEAN ZONE, we do of course get back about £75m a week, but are told " you spend it on this or that" ... so why pay it in the first place...
base line is we pay £13, 000,000,000 get back about £ 3,500.000,000 and dictated to...

 

Thing is, it's arguments like this which make me skeptical over the 'Out' campaign. It's clearly not as simple as that is it? For one thing, any significant hospital will cost more than £350m (the latest in Glasgow cost £1bn). And then to say we simply give that much money and receive that much back is far too basic an argument to comprehend. It's not the money that's the issue, the issue is whether we get value for money from that money which we put in, and if not, is it worth leaving for? Still undecided for me.

 

In the case of TTIP the poster did provide reasoning. I also made reference earlier to TTIP. That something as utterly undemocratic is even considered destroys many pro EU arguments.

 

You can build a hospital for £0.4b or you can build a hospital for £1b, what you have not or do not do is put the item in it's perspective.. you loosely state "any significant hospital" if you have ever been to Scotland, I have many many times since 1950 and over the past 10 years or more sometimes 25 times a year sometimes as little as 4, then you will know it is a vast country with a highly concentrated area of the population so you would not build a £1b hospital in Ayr or Ullapool or Lairg probably not even in Inverness or Fort William but you would certainly do so in Edinburgh or Glasgow .
The money aspect ..here is an example you may be able to relate to ..
BCFC IS A FAMILY swayed club who like to encourage big families.
Some people have a lot of money some do not ...
from 2017 BCFC is going to charge around £30 to watch but first everyone has to pay £150 per game into a kitty before watching .... you then apply for a rebate if you think you cant afford it
70% of the crowd cant afford to pay £30 some as little as just £20 for a family of 4
BCFC has collected a large kitty and make up everybody's ticket from it ... they don't want to lose out do they expenses and things to pay for ... . seating them here there and anywhere in the ground ..
you are the lucky one you get back £ 60 its only cost you £90 and you do have a seat and likely a good view ...

 

I'm fully aware of the Maths of it thanks It's more the gist of the complete ignoring of any of the benefits which we get for our money, and it's undeniable that we do get some benefits, it's just whether they're worth it. And as for the hospital argument, it can work both ways, and if you were to refer to tiny hospitals worth £5m each for example that would make it look equally daft.

I'm not saying you're wrong mate, it's just the explaining of figures but then not actually showing any relevant discussion around them. You're probably right ultimately.

 

pray tell me what is daft about a hospital that might only cost £5m ? " not actually showing any relevant discussion around them" THROW AWAY COMMENT? which is bordering on hypocritical
eg cottage hospitals/ maternity hospitals/community hospitals
Paulton has a wonderful little hospital ...

 

It is estimated that we get 10 times the money back that we put in through investment. Now 9x £350million a week is a lot of money!!!

 

No we don't, I think it's been mentioned on here or I've read it somewhere else that we get back a percentage of what we put in not 9 times the amount.
If that was true then I will send the EU some money weekly as that's a great return.

 

Im talking about indirect money from being in the EU not the money we get directly back.

 

Show us the proof of this bit of fact then?

 

Too busy to find it but it was on some document somewhere mightve been the government leaflet on it

 

Well played, you have completely and utterly missed the point . The point was that the numbers can be construed to the two extremes, not that a £5m hospital is worthless!

 

Some facts upto 2013

http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/...e-eu-and-how-much-do-we-get-back/9099.article

It doesn't include trade figures, but I doubt it's nine times the figure paid into.

One of the things to remember (I know farmers) is the grants do not always outweigh the restrictions. The ones I have spoken too state that a lot of the time they could be financially worse off but tied to it.

 

Everyone one keeps missing fundamental points in some of these statements and posts and the Pro campaign continue to do it the most and Cameron is the worst!

" is estimated that we get 10 times the money back that we put in through"

ESTIMATED.. It means nothing.. I could estimate that 90% of people will vote out now. Austerity will continue to last 100 years blah blah.. They can't even get growth estimates right for the next quarter in our own economy!

 

I have just watched a young lady on sky news sat on a panel as an 'expert' state we receive more in refund than we do in payments!

Fundamentally wrong!! Was she questioned on it by the panel? No, why not? The man on the leave side may as well
Have gone for an Early breakfast as been there!

 

Yeah I must admit receiving 10x back on £350m per week sounds ridiculous to me.