Match Day Thread Plymouth V Liverpool FA cup 3rd round replay

No, the issue is that he killed two children by being a stupid twat. If you changed the 7 year sentence to a 100 year one, it still wouldn't make any difference, it wouldn't bring the two children back.

 

I don't think we are actually disagreeing here.

My points were:

1. I'm not comfortable in wishing luck to/supporting a team like Plymouth when they have someone who has done something awful as McCormick. Not that he shouldn't be playing, he's served his time, I just think of the family to the two dead children walking in to a shop, picking up a newspaper and seeing McCormick beaming at the front holding a trophy aloft.

2. He should've got a lot longer than the sentence he got and to be out after 4 years for such a horrendous crime highlighted how poor the justice system actually is.

I haven't got anything personal against your club and think your fans, manager and playing staff have been a credit to your club over the two games and highlighted what a great club you are. It's just I'd never be comfortable in wishing someone like McCormick, or in fact Goodwillie, luck for the future.

 

We had a few fans convicted for involuntary manslaughter after Heysel. Please get off your high horse.

 

You're a good bunch down there

 

McCormick and Goodwillie are NOT the club. They are simply currently employed by it. The Club is and always will be the supporters as I'm sure you think is the case with Liverpool. To say that nobody supported your player for drink driving makes it ok is not really the point either. He was lucky and nobody died but if anyone thinks it wasn't likely then they are as naive as McCormick was for getting behind his wheel. Was there a clamour to sack him? Was he sacked? We both know the answer to that Lucaaas. I wasn't going to mention Hyshel but I did watch that unfold on the tele where people died. Your own fellow supporter makes the point on that so there isn't any need to go further. I notice also that there is no mention of the hundreds and hundreds who commit the same sort of offences without the ending he had but could easily have done the same. He made a choice, it was a huge mistake and he has paid, not the price most think he should have paid it's true, but the price nonetheless and he will continue to pay for the rest of his life. But, it was an error in judgement not premeditated murder. Nobody here holds him up as a paragon of virtue. Super Luke chants refer to his keeping ability and saves not hero worship as a man. Everyone knows what he did and not one person has ever said it was ok so he has also been roundly condemned like your player was. I have 8 grandchildren and the thought of anything happening to them is just unthinkable to me. I feel dreadfully sorry for the familiy concerned as does he. He can't change what happened now and apart from topping himself what else is he meant to do other than go to work and be a good person from now on. Finally what was said in Court regarding how it affected him is what is said in all of these cases. It is part of the submission process when his legal people tell the court about him. It is expected.

 

You can't choose your fans as a football club, you can choose who you employ though, and they've made a choice to employ McCormick.

 

Firmino would've been sacked had he killed two children. Fortunately, he didn't, so his crime is nowhere near as severe as McCormick's.

 

Tbf, we don't even know yet whether Geronimo has been convicted of anything. 31st of this month, isn't it?

 

McCormick didn't get in his car and set out to kill somebody. It happened and he was unlucky. Thousands of others get away with it including your man. He may not have been convicted of anything but then again with an expensive lawyer he might wriggle off a charge. However, on the balance of probability ? What do you think. That by the way is the actual situation with Goodwillie. He hasn't been convicted of anything either. He has to pay money on the balance of probability. I just don't get this hollier than thou thing. McCormick is a fairly young man who has to work for a living. He happens to be a footballer rather than some other profession. However, because he is a footballer then nobody anywhere should employ him. I think I'll leave it there.

Make sure you beat Wolves.

 

You live up to your name as sensible poster but that sentence is outrageous and I'm sure if you re-read it you may want to change how that's worded.

He wasnt unlucky, the children he killed were unlucky, he was a massive twat for getting behind the wheel drunk. As is everyone who ever does it and does or doesn't get caught.

And no one here has actually said he shouldn't be employed. All that was said is the sentence he got didnt seem just to the crime committed (by his fault) and that Lucas doesn't feel can cheer on club for promotion.

 

Answer the question I asked then. What would you like him to do yo right that wrong?

 

Invent a time machine go back and give himself a slap before he gets in the car and say don't be a dick, you're a pro footballer pay for a cab you cheap batard!

 

Ah, so obvious...

 

No it reads right. When I say he was unlucky I meant that it was a mistake he never meant to happen and another thousand times and it probably wouldn't have. Two kids being killed isn't unlucky it's tragic. I also think that it was said he shouldn't be employed by Argyle and that's why he cannot cheer on the club for promotion. How on earth can it be McCormick's fault what sentence he got? There is no sentence that can make up for what happened but it was the one he was given. He was never going to kick off in jail because he isn't that sort of bloke anyway. Therefore he was always going to be released early. That's the way the prison system works and again he isn't responsible for that either. It's the hypocracy thing I don't get. Liverpool supporters were responsible for people dying in Belgium. They got charged with Involuntary Manslaughter because none of them meant it to happen and didn't set out to kill. But they did cause death despite that. McCormick did not set out to kill anyone that night. Regrettably but what is the difference when people died in both instances? He's a footballer is what and nothing more. I have no idea what sentences your fellow supporters got for their part in those deaths but I suspect it wasn't life and most served much shorter sentences.

Having just read the comment above if he could invent a time machine he would. Before this cup match I doubt any of you even knew his name. You don't know him now but are condemning him despite that. He is a really decent sort. He has to carry what happened with him for the rest of his life and he has never ducked out of him being at fault for the events. He does a great deal outside of football for organisations and charities donating some of his wages every month to support things. He knows it can never bring the kids back but in the only way he can he is trying to make some recompense. He never asks to be given a break. Apart from the time machine I don't know what else he could do.

 

@greeny,

Here was me thinking you said you wouldn't be mentioning Heysel after reading one of your previous threads, then this.......


"Liverpool supporters were responsible for people dying in Belgium. They got charged with Involuntary Manslaughter because none of them meant it to happen and didn't set out to kill. But they did cause death despite that."

How the **** is that relevant to players causing deaths due to drunk driving?

What happened in 1985 was disgraceful and those involved(and jailed)were responsible for their own actions and totally responsible for them and the consequences.

How about you stick to drink driving and its consequences for the idiot behind the wheel and the innocent pedestrians at risk and/or killed, after all that was the original point under discussion, just a thought mate.

 

He can't, unfortunately for the family and himself.

That's why its such a horrible thing to do, because once you take a life you cannot give it back.

 

Exactly. He faced his punishment through a justice system and served what was deemed to be sufficient punishment. The problem is that justice system saw fit for him to serve less than 4yrs. That bit is the the disgrace!

 

Agreed, all I said was that I don't feel comfortable supporting Plymouth's bid for promotion because I can't imagine how it would feel for the children's parents to turn on the TV and see McCormick lifting a trophy with a huge smile on his face.

 

I wasn't going to mention Heysel but one of your own did originally. All I did was use it as a similarity of causing death but not intentionally. There is no difference to causing death however it is done. Dead is after all dead. Please don't tell me that some drink wasn't involved in your clubs incident. You say it all when you use the term "player". Because he is a footballer somehow he has to be pilloried forever more. I know you haven't been down in the footballing depths for ever Lucaaas but the chances of anyone switching on the TV other than in this area and see anyone lifting a trophy is remote indeed. The world only cares about the premier league and league 2 just doesn't get that coverage.

 

Think we should leave it at that mate, the argument is getting tedious as we are just going backwards and forwards.