Retrospective diving bans: Yay or Nay?

My only grumble about retro punishment if after game is it helps the next opponents not the fouled team..say us United and Chelsea all going for title...our player does the dirty, we beat United but then player is banned for the Chelsea game..double punishment on United in that situation.

Replays are quick enough to deal with it in game.

I'm all for 10 minute Sin Bin for things like mouthing at the officials...professional fouls etc..

 

Nothing happened so either wasn't a speed camera and was maybe just doing traffic checks, I was only going about 75 or other cars next to me where going faster and got caught rather than me.

 

I don't follow rugby mate so I can't comment on the measures it has that football doesn't and whether it would have the same effects in a different sport. However, from what you've said here, it does appear to be moving with the times whereas football seems a bit stuck. Is changing the rules every few seasons rather than bringing in technology classed as advancement? I don't think so.

 

you are right about weak refs

in rubgy there is a discussion, and a ref can say i want to know only x not show me all but he has the choice and there are clear amount of phases he can look back

in cricket the umpire becomes a statue and the off field guy takes control.

my view of football linesmen is they are all refs and they all know that none of them want to run a line with a torrent of abuse so they don't want to have to step up and be heard explain anything. its more about crowds than the officals

I would really like all of them to man up

I'd like people to grow up. put big screen tvs in top stadiums, mike the refs and show the incident... and stop saying there will be riots. properly steward the games and eject trouble makers.

 

in fairness a rugby sin bin = one side goes defensive but i feel the citing rule would work perfectly. both teams and submit an incident and there is NO the ref dealt with it.

 

Can you explain the citing rule to me?

 

ok so in rugby the rule is here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citing_commissioner

in short

1. a citing officer is appointed

2. he reviews game and can call upon foul play where a player has been dealt with by the ref or not but he is really looking for guys who should have got a red card. ie people gouging eyes, going for high head shots to get guys concussed, stamping and so forth and so on.

3. if a player got a red card no citing is needed and he will go to discipline panel anyway. if he only got a yellow he could be cited

4. both teams can report a player within 48 hours of the match to the citing officer to review. he gets then to decide who to get to.

5. there is then a hearing... and the player can appeal. This is very like the video panel


the reality is the FA have created a "sort of" similar system but rather than admit like rugby that officials are not perfect nor need to appear perfect the FA have created their video panel.

My understanding is the FA say that if a ref's report (if he bothers doing it right) recalls an incident then a video panel doesn't need to review it. if a player attacks someone and ends their career and the ref gives a yellow that's it. there is zero comeback for the team who gets the sharp end of this system. Further the ref is god, he's perfect.

in rugby the ref focuses on reffing. he has video replays available to him and his linesmen can walk onto filed and give their opinion on what, who and what to do about it. if all that doesn't catch it then the citing officer is focused on reviewing the tapes and not victimising the officials.

If you look at what rugby has done recent on head injuries.. first it introduced a rule where anyone concussed or suspected as being concussed has to leave the field for a 10 minute assessment... next thing you find head shots coming in left and right and the southern hemisphere teams in particular came up with a way to get head shots without swinging arms. They go with shoulders. What do rugby do? they change the rules instantly and go for red card for head shots period.... really harsh cos some guys were swinging arms and some are only trying to make a fair tackle and guys dip their head in.

The FA would never do this with football. peoepl get away with blue murder all the time cos

a) no video
b) linesmen cop out
c) video panel doesn't want to know
d) no right for the victim to appeal.

 

I get it now. It seems rugby is also looking to protect players from serious injury - just wait until they introduce Am football helmets ....

 

Add..the recent clamp down on neck rolls (grabbing a guy by the head and then rolling your body away with its obvious Co sequence to the neck)

TBF..a lot of the changes in Rugby are safety based...the players have got bigger fitter and faster and the game had to stop these players heading the American Football way of whole generations of crippled and mentally damaged ex players.

I see the scrum going more and more like rugby leagues scrum..symbolic rather than a full on power struggle for the same reason.

As you say Mito...Sin binning may make teams defensive...it doesn't really with rugby but there's more players on the pitch to start with.

But then what if as now a team is already defensive but using professional fouls rather than being disciplined...they keep losing players..eventually they'll lose rather than draw games.

While I love attacking football I like a really good disciplined defensive display...that's not the same as hacking your way to a draw and I think sin binning will really effect teams that try to foul their way to a result.

 

Only if its FIFA led around the world.

 

yes 80% are safety and 20% are to speed the game up aorund the break down for sure.

I am not sure about the scrum but they have desperately tried to develop systems where they are easy to set and take out 90% of the dark arts but they are not yet like a rugby league joke scrum. you can still bully a side in the scrum.

the good in rugby IMO is:

1. video replays.

2. historic ref respect and conversation not barking **** off at each other

3. citing system

4. miked refs so everything is understood

5. speed of rule changes

6. sin bin works to negate cynical constant fouls

the bad in rugby is:

1. It is a bash em up sport and certain teams like new zealand have developed techniques to bash players out of games around the ruck. if your out half goes into a ruck v new zealand you are almost assure they will pile in trying to get shoulder hits to the head to concuss him out of the game. there is an arms race happening where concussion rules are forcing the planet off the pitch and ice hockey style enforcers are actively going after no 7s, no 10s, no 9s.. now any unlucky lad who find an opponent dipping in a tackle of slipping is getting a red card and it will be bad for the game.

2. That bash em up sport is collision based and the only sanitised way to end it is to end up with procession based game where every tackle loses 5 yards. cos a big hit on the gain line is likely to take your player off the park.

3. rugby is not that complicated but it is complex around the fringes and slowing the ball down is still rife.

4. rugby has become a support play game not a broken field game. you can't break past a tackle and run unless you have close support as when grounded you have to release within a few seconds or be dinged. this rule was to stop slow play but it does hurt sides. but then again the offload game is a far cry form the 5 min mellee every ruck was when i was a kid watching.

5. rubgy is a penalty driven sport now. and every kick can be a minute off the clock

6. sin bin = kick the ball game for 10mins.


so for me for football to learn from rugby there are quite simple things that any posrt can take that are really only common sense.

video replays YES. get the major decisions right please. it doesn't take any longer than it takes for tim krul or frasier forester to take a goal kick or as long as it takes to take a en r give a yellow to review 3 angles on a pen.

mike the refs, force them to call the decision. No time required. the blow the whistle they must speak to what the foul is or clearly shout advantage etc. lets hear that debate with players too. this would affect nothing in the game flow at all.

citing system. give recourse to justice to teams. Again it only requires the stupid refs are gods mentality to go away and refs be supported as humans who need help. cite players for their antics. if a yellow is given enable the independent system to make that a red. that would be just natural justice. It is disgusting that a guy can get away with blue murder cos he got a yellow but the guy next to him can get a red for nothing and spend 3 games sitting out.

Develop a new mentality in refs. and if a sin bin which is a 2/3 minute duration is needed to get away from its too early to book someone or to negate a lot of the slowing up tactics teams engage in fine.

IMO shirt pulling and the more cynical stuff i described earlier could be clearly lumped together and 3 sin bins = red card or something. keep the yellows ofr more serious foul play in tackles and decrease the amount you can get before a suspension.



There are as many ways in football to time waste and slow a team up until your won team gets set as there are in rugby. Both sports need defensive lines to get set so both sports have these little tactics.

As i said watch a lot of prem refs, they will give certain players 5/6 fouls which are niggly and then suddenly after HT whip out the cards on the basis that a yellow after 10 mins is almost certainly a decision by the 80th min on a second one and a red.

these niggly cheap fouls around the midfield battle ground is where the game breaks down and becomes a mess. I lose count of the amount of times we've seen it... hell most recently Bournemouth v Liverpool .Henderson gets a yellow and stops fouling. what happens? 3 goals in 14 mins.

compare to a mourinho chelsea side rotating the fouler around to end up with 6/7 yellows and really not caring.

would a negative manager like mourinho adjust his thinking if he lost his midfielder for 5 mins on each cynical foul.