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Sports Ground Safety Advisory Group Meeting - 22nd February 2017

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    HULL CITY COUNCIL

    Streetscene Services

    Sports Ground Safety Advisory Group Meeting

    Tuesday 22 February 2017

    KCOM Stadium


    GENERAL MEETING

    MINUTES OF MEETING


    Present:


    Pete Curry (Chair) - Hull City Council Sports Ground Safety
    Joel Bridger JB Hull City Council Sport Ground Safety
    Phil Parker PP - Hull City Council Building Control
    Steve Larvin SL - Hull City Council Health and Safety
    Mark Smith MS - Sports Ground Safety Authority
    Paul Cresswell PC - Humberside Police
    Tracy Bradley TB - Humberside Police
    Chris Fothergill CF - Yorkshire Ambulance Service
    Brian Dalby BD - Yorkshire Ambulance Service
    Chris Davies CD - Saint John’s Ambulance
    Garry Neal GN - KC Stadium Management Company
    Dave Gregory DG - KC Stadium Management Company
    Steve Coultas SC - KC Stadium Management Company
    Kevin Hickson KH - KC Stadium Management Company
    Joe Clutterbrook JC - Hull City Tigers
    Lynnsey Pilmer LP - Hull City Tigers
    Georgia Williams GW - Hull City Tigers
    Dan Coulson DC - Venue Catering Partner - VCP
    Rob Harmer RH - Representative of Hull City Fans Working Group
    Lisa Jewitt LJ - Chairman FC Voices
    Michael Oates MJ - Cuffe and Taylor
    Daniel Cuffe DC - Cuffe and Taylor




    Apologies: Mark Walster, Sarah Nicholson, Khaled Choudhury



    AGENDA ITEM

    BUSINESS

    ACTION

    1.

    Introductions


    Introductions were made by all present. Before the meeting got underway The Chair explained that charterhouse rules applied to any of the potentially sensitive information discussed at the meeting. The Chair explained that any commercially sensitive items that anyone would like to raise could be discussed at the end of the meeting.


    The Chair welcomed Rob Harmer (representative of Hull City Fans Working Group) and Lisa Jewitt (Chairwoman of FC Voices) again and for the benefit of clarity he reaffirmed the terms of their invitation.

    2.

    Previous Minutes

    The minutes for the meeting were agreed as true record.

    3.

    Matters Arising

    3.1. Update on LED advertising hoardings (sightlines, structural improvements following collapse, steward training and pre match checking of pitch perimeter gates etc.)

    DG confirmed that following alterations the sightline issues that had been initially presented seemed to have been resolved and no further negative feedback had been received.

    The Chair requested clarification on the arrangements for the pre match checking and training in the operation of the LED hoarding’s integral exit gates, in response SC confirmed that there is an ADI engineer present on match days who signs the hoardings off as safe and operational. The Chair asked if the stewarding policy had been amended to include this element of the stewarding operation, GN confirmed that it is in the process of renewal and that it would be included in the forthcoming edit. GN and The Chair confirmed that they would convene to review the stewarding plan in the coming weeks.


    ACTION

    The Chair to update on outcome of stewarding plan review.

    10. KC Stadium, Allocation of away supporters (upper West)

    The Chair explained to the group how this matter was raised during the recent due diligence interview which formed part of the safety certificate transferal process for the new holder (Ehab Allam). When questioned whether it was still the owners intention to reallocate away supporters to the upper West stand in spite of in house and external expert advice that advised against the proposal on safety grounds he confirmed that the advice had been taken on board and that the matter was now closed with no further plans to revisit them.

    12. AOB - Concourse/Vomitory Visibility Barriers

    It was confirmed that the vomitory visibility barrier that caused a restriction next to the concourse segregation gate had now been removed. It was discussed how removing the remainder of the visibility barriers had been considered but it was decided that they should remain due to concerns that that their removal may encourage queuing from the concourse concessions to extend to the vomitories which would cause obstruction to spectators negotiation of and entry to the exit system.

    13. AOB - KCOM Rebranding

    It was confirmed that the rebranding of the stadium was now complete and that the safety certificate had now been updated to bear the current name.

    The Chair

    4.


    SGSA Update

    New Guidance

    MS informed the group that the annual SGSA conference would be held on the 2nd March 2017 at Lords Cricket Ground and that tickets were still available confirming that details were published on the SGSA website.

    Hillsborough Inquests Outcomes Review

    MS drew everyone’s attention to the publication of the Hillsborough Inquests Outcomes Review (also available on the SGSA website). The Chair took the opportunity to briefly run through the findings and commented on some of the items that he felt were particularly pertinent to this group:

    · Operating Procedures and General Safety Certification (GCS)

    The Chair explained that The KCOM Stadium was currently operating on the prescriptive safety certificate format, he continued to explain there is also another format that can be adopted that is “risk based”, whereby the certificate holder presents an operations manual that is appraised by the SAG and SGSA and if approved the LA certification is appended to it, with this option the management team would then be responsible for abiding by their own policies and procedures, the safe operation of the stadium and compliance with the certificate/operational plan would still be audited by the LA as with the prescriptive format. The Chair explained that it was his view that this option is generally preferred by The SGSA as it imposes more accountability on the certificate holder and safety officer/management team, he continued to add that he shared this notion and would welcome The SMC’s eventual transferal to this format once there is greater stability within the organisation and the new certificate holder and Safety Officer have been in post for longer, stating that the matter could perhaps be considered for next season depending upon how things go between now and then.

    · Safety Advisory Group (SAG)

    The Chair disclosed that he was happy that the SAG had a good compliment of knowledge and experience around the table, that all of the core bodies/departments were represented and that there was good attendance and input from stakeholders, for this he thanked everyone for their efforts and time.

    · Policies and Procedures

    The Chair explained that the LA had adopted a formal Sports Ground Safety policy that was freely available to anyone who would like to read it, he informed members that himself and his assistant had achieved NVQ Level 4 Spectator Safety qualifications and that delegation had been formalised within the LA to him so that he could freely undertake his duties under sports ground legislation.

    · Joined up Approach

    The Chair cited the invitation of fans representatives as a good example of engaging with stakeholders, continuing to add that generally speaking anybody with a relevant interest in the safety of spectators was welcome at SAG meetings

    · Key Themes for Clubs and Stadium Operators – Communications

    The Chair drew member’s attention to the next section of the outcomes review that was relevant to clubs and stadium operators, he briefly ran through each of the theme’s explaining how the SMC were compliant, he did however, single out the communications heading as an area for improvement, explaining that any changes to the sports ground structure layout or operational manual (i.e. anything potentially affecting the P and S Factors) should be recorded and communicated to the certifying authority. Unfortunately there has been a trend of changes to the fabric of the stadium where no communication had been made whatsoever, adding that thankfully the works in question have retrospectively been found to be safe. It was pointed out that acknowledgement of this bad practice would have to feature as a consideration in the SMC’s S Factor self-assessment.

    ACTION

    The Chair and SMC to give a summary of the outcome of S (and P) Factor review.

    Brief overview of SGSA joint consultation document.

    The Chair informed the group that a consultation document was imminently due to be published by the SGSA which will revaluate their interpretation of sports ground safety legislation and the certification of sports grounds in general. He explained that he cannot expand on this information in detail at this time but once the document is published he will circulate it, members were also informed that there would be an 8 week consultation period and that core SAG members would be expected to respond, this could be individually or collectively.

    ACTION

    Core members to give an overview of input of consultation. The Chair to cascade and information from SGSA.

    The Chair/SMC

    The Chair/Core SAG Members

    5.

    Jeff Lynne’s ELO Concert 01/07/2017

    LP and DC discussed current ticket sales agreeing after some confusion that they were currently at 11,386. It was confirmed that the agreed capacity was 24,950 and that it would be an all seated event. DC disclosed that it was his gut feeling that sales would not exceed 20k.

    The Chair asked for an update and agreement on the following

    elements of the event infrastructure planning and overlay;

    Staging

    DC confirmed that the stage would now be of a different construction to what had first been proposed. It will now be a custom design, specific design details are to follow.

    Production

    · Follow Spots - MO confirmed that there would be production holds to accommodate follow spots that will be located in blocks 3 & 5 of the Upper West stand.

    · PA, Shadow Ring Delays – MO confirmed that it was intended that there would be shadow ring delays mounted on the roof. The Chair responded by stating that structural calculations to prove this fixing arrangement must be provided if this was to be accepted.

    Ticket Duplication

    It was discussed how the duplication of tickets resulted in spectators on the pitch being displaced which gave rise to minor fracas that required steward intervention. DC explained that this will not happen again and explained that he was let down by the ticketing company that was used on that occasion who are not being used this time around.

    Pyrotechnics

    It was identified that at the last event one of the two pyrotechnic displays was not fit for purpose despite documentation being submitted that appeared to prove the contrary. Unfortunately the product in question transpired to be untested and ended up causing some minor injuries to (and legal action from some) pitch spectators located within its unintended fall out zone; there was also dense smoke that obscured visibility to the extent that the stadium lighting had to be switched on.

    DC explained that he had gone to great lengths to stop his client putting this display on, even offering to pay the difference between the client’s contractor’s fees and getting their own trusted contractor to put on one larger display, but unfortunately they would not listen. The Chair added that he appreciated that the defective display was not organised by the concert promoter and that the fault lay with their client, but that collectively the SAG and themselves ultimately had a duty of care to uphold public safety.

    The Chair stated that he would be happy if no pyrotechnics were planned, but if they are to be proposed that the documentation will be stringently checked.

    Concessions/Hospitality

    After discussion with DC it was identified that the new stage may have a bearing on the availability of bar positions stage left and right and that this is something that will have to be discussed outside of this meeting.

    LP explained how she had experienced some marketability issues with hospitality tickets for the circle restaurant; she had received some negative feedback from existing and potential customers who had stated that being pitch seated was an unattractive option to them (particularly the journey from the hospitality suite down to the pitch). It was discussed with MO that it would benefit sales if seats could be offered in the West Stand as this is what patrons are accustomed to on a normal match day, MO confirmed that it was very likely that blocks that were previously held for production could be made available as a result of changes to the production configuration.

    DC explained that some approvals had been received from the licencing authorities regarding concessions and that the overlay was broadly the same as the previous event except for the omission of a section of the NE corner where demand was found to be low at the last event.

    Ingress/Egress

    It was confirmed by the concert promoters and the SMC safety team that it was their intention to utilise the turnstiles for the ingress of all spectators and that spectators seated on the pitch would come up to the concourse and down from the vomitories and radial gangways to the pitch. The Chair accepted this configuration, citing that it had worked well previously but stated strongly that every vomitory that is included in the capacity calculation must remain available, he continued to remind those present that there had been some wrangling about the obstruction of two gangways (stage left and right in the East Stand) by stage ramps during the last concert by the same promoters, had the situation remained unresolved it would have resulted in the special safety certificate being withheld. DC and MO confirmed that this will not be a problem this time around.

    It was discussed briefly how the initial plans to admit spectators through the entrances of outer bowl (secured with perimeter fencing) had been disregarded due to issues with external Wi-Fi connectivity for the mobile hand scanners.

    Crowd Management

    It was discussed how for the “up and over” method of ingress favoured for this event, the tickets would be targeted to specific turnstiles. For this method to work efficiently it was discussed that extremely visible and understandable elevated signage should be used externally to ensure that spectators (good proportion of which will be unfamiliar with the layout of the stadium) are well directed and that acceptable flow rates are maintained satisfactorily, it was also agreed that tickets should also be designed with ease of reference a key consideration.

    Emergency Gate North East Corner

    The Chair made reference to the unfair pressure that was placed on him and the SMC safety team to allow the closure of the NE emergency gate to accommodate the performers Winnebago at the last concert, continuing to reiterate that this gate must remain open on safety grounds and that for this event the performer will have to be accommodated in such a way that does not impinge on operation of and access to this gate or indeed the safe operation of any other aspect of the stadium.

    Crowd Profile

    DC confirmed that no postcode GEO data was available yet for the tickets sold to date, but that he expected the bulk of sales to be local.

    In response to questioning about the expected typical profile of spectators, he explained that it was his understanding that Jeff Lynne’s fan base was generally mild, well behaved, unchallenging and not known to embrace the kind of drinking culture characteristic of Rod Steward fans.

    Disability Access

    It was discussed how there would be raised viewing platforms available for wheelchair users and their helpers in the same locations as the last event (in front of the North and South stands) but on this occasion they would be of a lower height to overcome the sightline issues at the last event.

    Seating

    DC confirmed that although successful at the last event, it was unlikely that the 40 seat wide Wernick Events seating product would be used on this occasion; he explained that he was considering a new product but reassured the group that width of seats or aisles would not be a problem.

    Pitch Covering

    MO confirmed that Armourdeck 3 flooring product would be used at this event, this product can take heavy loading removing the need for aluminium track for plant, machinery and staging. MO also confirmed that this product also has a proprietary edging and cable housing to ensure that no trip hazards are presented.


    Build Dates

    DC and MO confirmed the following key dates had identified but explained that they were perhaps subject to change;

    · Setting Out 24th June

    · Flooring 25 - 26th June

    · Seating and stage build 27 – 30th June

    Show 1st July

    · Break 2nd July

    · Clear site by 3rd July

    Multi Agency Walk Around / Special Safety Certificate Sign Off

    The Chair took the opportunity to draw attention to the unsatisfactory and untimely manner in which the final sign off occurred at the last event. Due to the build overrunning there was still minor construction activity happening (buggy’s moving inside stadium, exposed edgings still requiring matting etc.) as gates opened and spectators were admitted. The Chair stated that this was very bad practice and will not be tolerated a second time, admitting that in retrospect the certificate should not have been awarded and the opening of the event should have been delayed, stating that this will be the outcome if similar issues arise at this event, to that end he asked for a commitment from the concert promoters that the build shall be completed before 2pm, adding that if this request is not observed then any consequential delays will be their fault.

    It was agreed that the completed build shall be signed following a multi-agency walk around at 2pm. DC stated that he hopes to have the build complete during the morning and does not want a repeat of the problems discussed at the last event himself.

    Show Times

    The show times were confirmed as follows:

    · Gates 5.30pm

    · Show close before 11.00pm curfew

    There was no other specific performance times or support acts etc. confirmed.

    Fire Risk Assessment

    PP requested that the concert specific fire risk assessment be conducted at a later stage so to take consideration of the final overlay of the concert.

    Stewarding

    It was confirmed that as the stadium (and pitch) is a licensable area 25% of stewards shall be SIA accredited. It was also agreed that as the promoter intends to provide a proportion/element of stewarding on the pitch then it must be deployed, briefed and managed by The Safety Officer.

    Policing

    TB confirmed that this would be a Police free event but that as with the last event there would be presence around the locality of the stadium just in case.

    6.

    Fire Safety Audit

    PP briefly ran though the items identified in the Fire Safety Audit and explained that he was happy that the safety team had shown a commitment to resolving the issues that were found.

    PP rounded up his update by bringing it to the safety team’s attention that he had realised that the current certificate holder should now sign the fire risk assessment off.

    7.

    Hull City v’s Manchester Utd EFL Semi Final 26/01/17 and in general:

    · Away allocation for high category fixtures; including location, restrictions and sales arrangements.

    · Turnstile flow rates, late walk ups/entry and potential disorder outside of stadium.

    The Chair explained to the group that following a request from the club a higher than usual allocation of away tickets was allowed to be issued to Manchester Utd, adding that on the match day it became apparent that this decision was a mistake.

    The Chair continued to explain to those who may not be aware how to facilitate an away allocation increase from 2500 to 3500, Block N4 was incorporated into to the usual allocation of N5,N6,NE,E1,E2,E3, with half of N3 forming the vertical segregation between opposing fans. Due to historical instances of Manchester Utd spectators occupying aisles The Chair insisted that the two front rows in the North Stand blocks were removed from sale to act as spare capacity to reseat spectators that had to be removed from these locations.

    It was discussed how in the planning meetings serious concerns were expressed by The Chair and his assistant regarding the likelihood of large queues of spectators after kick off. It had been identified and understood that the configuration of the turnstiles and the concourse segregation meant that the collectively the turnstiles available would be only 600 spectators per hour short of their maximum rate, JB explained that the flow rate calculation did not take account of late walk ups and that in his opinion, in this way the calculation itself was not fit for purpose, as in reality turnstiles do not admit a steady flow of 11 people per minute consistently, with flow rates typically being low early on and higher closer to kick off, JB continued to explain that in essence this meant that on this occasion due to the capacity being set so close to the maximum flow rate the turnstiles would have had to have ran close to their maximum rate steadily for an hour to have any chance of admitting everyone on time and how clearly this was unrealistic considering the expected late walk up and after factoring in mechanical and human errors in the operation of the turnstiles.

    The Chair explained how part way through the pre-match planning process it emerged that the two front rows in the North Stand blocks that were removed from sale had in fact been sold which severely compromised the safety teams ability to keep the aisles clear from the outset, subsequently part of block N3 was identified as alternative spare capacity to reseat but this was not found to be a satisfactory solution. A general discussion ensued theorising how this could have happened and how this must not be allowed to happen again in the future, the group were generally surprised to hear that tickets that were not available for sale were sent, The Chair explained that there was some complication in the current process that allowed this to happen and that this needs to be looked at to ensure it cannot happen again, adding that should it reoccur then he will be adamant that the club instruct the opposing team to retract the tickets that they have erroneously sold and that in retrospect, this is the course of action that should have been followed on this occasion.

    The Chair continued to inform the group that as a result of the issues that had just been described, as predicted large queues were still present after kick off and described how for over 20 minutes he and his assistant had stood outside and uncomfortably witnessed growing frustration which resulted in minor disorder that was beginning to test the police which could have easily escalated further. GN explained that some of the issues were exacerbated by spectators being delayed by accidents on arterial routes to the stadium.

    It was discussed how during the planning stages it had been disclosed by Manchester Utd’s Safety Officer to expect challenging behaviour if allocating above 3000 spectators for a late kick off, in hindsight it was agreed that as a group closer regard should have been paid to this advice and that by and large the likelihood of all of the issues that occurred was known from the outset, to that end The Chair stated that a similar occurrence would not happen again and that future safety decisions must been based on the information/intelligence that is available.

    Turnstiles

    RH informed the group that it in his opinion the current turnstile arrangements are unfit for purpose and that in home and away stiles there are regularly queues after kick off, he cited the card reading software as the issue behind the delays. The Chair and his assistant agreed that at each fixture they have been to since the installation of that card readers there have been significant queues, conceding that some of the problem is spectator behaviour, in particular late walk ups, adding that there will always be a proportion of spectators who knowingly come late and accept and understand that they will miss kick off and that this is their prerogative, they explained that their concern lay with the late admittance of spectators who had arrived in what can be considered a timely manner but still get in late. As noted at the Manchester Utd cup fixture, there is a potential of collective frustration leading to disorder.

    RH mentioned how prior to introduction of the card reading system, queues after kick off were relatively unheard of and that in seasons past the attendances at matches has actually been greater, JB added that this could be part of the problem, theorising that the problem may have been compounded since attendances have been lower with more match day tickets now available to spectators who are unfamiliar with the stadium layout and the card reading system and that this unfamiliarity adds to delays.

    The Chair rounded up the conversation by stating that he felt that the new system had been in place long enough for any teething problems such as spectator education to be ironed out and for any minor alterations to be made that could increase flow rates and eliminate the large scale queueing that has now become expected. To that end he would now like to formally request that an investigation into turnstile flow rates and late admittances after kick-off to be undertaken, followed by a report to the SAG with proposals for resolving the problems that had just been discussed.

    The report should principally aim to satisfy section 7.7 of the Green Guide which asserts the following;

    Providing a sufficient number of turnstiles or entry points

    Although the entry capacity is determined by the number of spectators who can be admitted within a period of one hour, in practice many grounds admit spectators well in advance of the start of a sporting event. However, for many events, large numbers of spectators arrive close to the starting time.

    These variations should be recognised when determining the number of turnstiles or entry points to be provided, or staffed on particular event days.

    For example, providing the exact number of turnstiles to serve one section purely on the basis that each one will theoretically admit 660 persons per hour may result in a build-up of queues outside the ground, as latecomers arrive shortly before the start. It is also inevitable that certain turnstiles will operate more slowly than others; for example, those which admit large numbers of children. For all spectators to be admitted in time for the start, therefore, a larger number of entry points may be required than might otherwise be the case if the number were based purely on the application of the 660 figure.”

    ACTION

    The SMC safety team to provide a report on improvements made/planned to turnstile flow rates.

    The SMC

    8.

    Stadium Annual Audit

    The Chair explained how following a request from the SMC safety team the Annual Audit had been rescheduled from the 7th to the 28th February 2017 to allow Kevin Hickson, the SMC’s new Facilities Manager time to familiarise himself with the fabric and operation of the stadium. The Chair continued to add that he felt that this was a reasonable request that he was happy to grant as based on the performance of previous years he had no concerns regarding the outcomes of the audit itself. The outcome of the rearranged audit shall be circulated to members. The Chair explained that following the paper audit a full stadium audit would be carried out in a similar manner to the one carried out 5 years ago. He would be contacting the core members shortly to arrange a mutual time for this inspection.

    ACTION

    The Chair to give an update on the outcome of the annual audit.

    The Chair

    9.

    New Stadium Safety Officer and Certificate Holder

    The Chair discussed the process that was followed for appointment of the new Safety Officer and Certificate holder and confirmed that the appointments had now been formalised and published in the local press.

    The Chair took the opportunity to inform the SMC that following specific guidance from the SGSA all changes to the safety certificate shall have to be published hereafter, detailing the approximate costs.

    10.

    Walton Street car park and traffic management proposals

    TB informed the group that she was keen for an improvement to be made to flow into and out of the car parks, she described how it had been noted by The Police that spectators were now debussing at Rawlings Way to avoid delays in traffic. DG and GN explained that SC was currently working with a traffic management company and stakeholders to devise an acceptable traffic management plan but highway restrictions and opposition from some residents and the local Councillor had hampered progress. Members of The Police discussed how they had observed the car park ticket payment upon entry as one delaying element.

    TB requested that agreement on acceptable improvements be reached and pushed through as soon as possible.

    ACTION

    SC to give an update on the progress of traffic management project.

    SC

    11.

    Discussion on future structure of SAG meetings

    The Chair explained how he and his assistant

    had been discussing the format of the agenda of SAG meetings and that they felt that they would be more coherently structured if each member had an item where they could provide a prepared update specific to their area of concern, it was discussed how there would still be plenty of opportunity for general discussion but that it was felt that specific issues would be identified better in the new proposition. Members agreed that this seemed a sensible change and were happy for it to take place.

    12.

    AOB

    Yorkshire Ambulance Service Medical Provision Assessment

    CF drew member’s attention to a new matrix that had been devised by YAS that was available for use. The matrix provides guidance on the numbers of medical staff required at different sized events. CF continued to explain that the spreadsheet may prove beneficial to safety teams when specifying medical staff numbers as the various guidance publications could be vague with big gaps between blocks of attendance. The Chair stated that it would be best practice to use this matrix for all alternative events in the future.

    CF also requested that any requests for staff for the forthcoming concert be made at least 8 weeks before the stage build commences.

    Stadium Footbridges – Out of Hours Closure Proposals

    The Chair touched upon the SMC’s proposals to close the stadium footbridges out of hours and that counter terrorism was the rationale behind the proposals, there was general discussion about proposal and the opposition that had been tabled by some local residents and a local Councillor that was still unresolved. RH questioned whether the threat was significant enough to justify the proposals, PC, who is a counter terrorism officer explained that that the access to the footbridges and general access to the stadium out of hours was identified as requiring action following a counter terrorism threat assessment and the identification of the vulnerabilities were was based upon real life intelligence.

    Health and Safety

    SL requested that HCC’s Health and Safety Team be forwarded reports of any incidents.

    Near Misses Car Park

    LJ explained that she was still getting reports of near misses with cars moving before they are permitted too and that the Walton street car park was chaotic in general, the safety team responded by confirming that they shall pay close attention to these instances but admitted that they hadn’t received any reports, they added that they hoped that the traffic management of the Walton St car park would be vastly improved once a SC’s improvement plan in complete and implemented.

    Hull F.C. Disability Access, Away Supporters

    LJ explained that she had received feedback from disabled away spectators regarding the lack of an elevated platform in the East Stand. After discussion it was agreed that there should be equal access and that providing an elevated position for those who request it should be included in this provision. It was agreed that block N6 and its wheelchair user platform will now be made available upon request.

    Hull City Supporter Ban.

    RH asked if the recent stadium ban imposed on a Hull City corporate supporter who carried a protest on the pitch could be discussed. The Chair explained that it was not a matter for the SAG to discuss as it was a prerogative of the SMC to impose sanctions on fans if they broke the ground regulations for the stadium.

    The Chair thanked everyone for their attendance and the meeting was closed.
     
    #1
  2. Amin Yapusi

    Amin Yapusi Well-Known Member

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    Ethan is such a **** for trying to close the foot bridge.
     
    #2
    nbetiger likes this.
  3. Newland Tiger

    Newland Tiger Well-Known Member

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    They ****ed up for the man u game then
     
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  4. LeftSaidFred

    LeftSaidFred Well-Known Member

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    OLM - did you manage to not fall asleep during all of this?
     
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  5. dennisboothstash

    dennisboothstash Well-Known Member

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    Surely it's Chatham House Rules not Charterhouse?!

    It's an interesting rule actually (well it is to saddos like me)

    People normally think it means that you have to keep the discussions that happen at the meeting confidential, but it doesn't. It means that you can discuss anything that's said at the meeting with anyone straight away, but you can't tell them who said it

    ...I probably spend too much time in meetings!
     
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  6. Happy Tiger

    Happy Tiger Well-Known Member

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    FFS.

    I was in full on smug mode about to correct that.

    Beaten to it.

    That's twice in one ****ing day.

    First Brady, now Dennis.

    I might quit the forum in a huge nerd rage.

    ****ers.

    P.S. Cheers Lambo, I appreciate you doing this stuff.
     
    #6
  7. oldman

    oldman Well-Known Member

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    <laugh> Jeff Lynne’s fan base was generally mild, well behaved, unchallenging and not known to embrace the kind of drinking culture characteristic of Rod Steward fans.
     
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    Kempton and balkan tiger like this.
  8. askewshair

    askewshair Well-Known Member

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    That caught my eye too!
     
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