Steve L time to sell the club

Oh I know BCFCRob, but I don't recall us losing 8 on the bounce and getting stuffed by 5 goals under him.
LJ has been offered the undying support and financial backing that he doesn't deserve, and which SC didn't get.

 

Rob your posting style makes it difficult to reply but here goes ..

Your posts are a paradox. Football clubs have ran at a higher level than Bristol City have consistently with less spending. A fact. Example Burnley (pre-promotion and parachute payments).

League two? I find it hard to understand how Bristol City would drop to that level. If football was all about spending then Bristol City’s income historically is enough to more than match virtually every club in Division one. And a few in the Championship. Focus, planning and Leadership are needed to add to finance. Historically BCFC have been spunking even money they do not have on large squads of average and less, hence huge losses authorised by Mr Lansdown.

The club was sustainable. You cannot highlight via any projection indicate how Steve Lansdown will even pay off the FC’s loans (to himself) via what will be further seasons of loss. In short you do not know, nobody does ..

The only established plans for the stadium would have made minimal difference … Sorry that is silly. The plans would have made a difference financially. That was the point. Unless you think spending ten thousand pound plus per seat, raising capacity by 15(?) is an industry norm for raising income. Yes your post was an untruth.

The Centre of Excellence … Produced players for higher than Division one. It was John Laycock's flag ship. Then that stopped when Mr Lansdown took over and the flow of players into the XI stopped. The intent from the top of tree changed. City got left behind and other clubs occupy the niche left open by Mr Lansdown's lack of forward thinking. BCFC run less development centres than Exeter ... Yes Exeter.

Regarding facilities, every (nearly) clubs facilities have improved, it’s a national enforced change to comply with the EPPP. Bristol City are playing catch up from that lapse of intent to commit to youth development.

Regarding concern. The FC has ceased to exist as a club. It IS Mr Lansdown. My big hope is for the C in Mr Lansdown's FC meaning to a degree Community and thus see as many local players graduating into the XI as once happened, and that activities currently in decline since Amy Kington left the Community Trust are resumed and enlarged providing far wider community engagement.

 

Maybe not 5-0 but quite a few 4-1 or 4-2 defeats. As Rob says everyone seems to have rose coloured specs as far as Cotts.
You've just got to look at RR now saying he left because of this or that. But in reality RR wanted him gone before he started with us and quieted down for one season but as soon as he could he was dying to say I told you so.

 

But LJ has been given the War Chest and an extended stay as Manager that he would have got nowhere else in English football.
It's almost as if Lansdown is saying he's here until it works, even if it never does. And that worries me a lot.....

 

I'm not saying LJ is the answer, it was just the love in everyone has for Cotts. I've got to be honest I didn't want him to go I wanted him to address his issues.
It was not a dig at you more at most as there was a few get him out threads at the time and now people are comparing.
To me I think Lansdown is a fool for keeping LJ but speaking to fans of other clubs in work they think it's great that someone is showing loyalty to a manager. Just wish it wasn't our owner though.

 

Going in circles here as we will never agree but my points.

- Burnley are a perfect example as you say, but there are fewer and fewer examples of this. For every Burnley there is a similar club spending in their means stuck in L1.
- Yes our income is enough to match L1 clubs as you say. But with more and more clubs running at a loss (and not caring) that will inevitably drop over years to come.
- I didn't say the established plans would have made minimal difference, I said in comparison to now. A new EE with a few boxes and virtually same capacity would not have transformed matchday or commercial revenue. That's not to say it wouldn't have improved it o fcourse.
- Centre of Excellence, not going to disagree, you're probably spot on.
- And yes, whether we're playing catch up or not, could we have improved those facilities without running at a substantial loss?

Your final paragraph is what we all dream of. A team of local players getting success for the club, and that would be fantastic. I was never a fan of Amy Kington (met her a couple of times and she wasn't the politest) but I'm certainly with you in hoping the correct intentions are there.

 

You know you've hit rock bottom when you're told your posting style is poor by JGF.

 

I find it fine mate, you make your points clearly and with sense. picking up the salient points and arguing them consistently..

 

Burnley are a perfect example as you say, but there are fewer and fewer examples of this. For every Burnley there is a similar club spending in their means stuck in L1. ... No idea what you are trying to articulate.

I didn't say the established plans would have made minimal difference, I said in comparison to now. A new EE with a few boxes and virtually same capacity would not have transformed matchday or commercial revenue ... Then why even consider it? The answer is it would have raised millions in a staged development. It would have transformed (good or bad depending on perception) 25% of the stadium and then the next development the next 25% ditto. It is not so different to what Mr Lansdown has done, really it Is not.

And yes, whether we're playing catch up or not, could we have improved those facilities without running at a substantial loss?

Yes. Infra structure is not include in losses under FFP and its variants.

I was never a fan of Amy Kington (met her a couple of times and she wasn't the politest) but I'm certainly with you in hoping the correct intentions are there ... Since Amy has left the Community Trust has gone into decline. The intentions have altered more interested in money on Westbury than benig engaged with poorer Communities in South Bristol ... Still hopeful but I doubt under Mr Lansdown and Bristol Sport the community trust will meet its potential.

 

It's really not hard to fathom... You say we should be like clubs like Burnley but they're almost notable for their singularity. For every success story of financial sensibility there is also a club where it's not working out, and where the failure to fork out is pushing them down the leagues. For us it could easily go either way, and I dare say without the millions spent by SL we wouldn't even be in the Championship.

I said a substantial loss, not a substantial loss for the purposes of FFP. So for you a loss is fine as long as it's not under FFP? Then why all the preaching about financial stability and prudence?

You really can't have it both ways, saying we should be operating at a profit while investing cleverly like Burnley when in reality doing so would mean there's only a slight chance of being like Burnley and a much bigger chance of being stuck in League One for evermore. You either decide to accept the situation and spend the money which you're going to lose anyway wisely (which SL is trying to do, whether he's doing it correctly is another debate), or attempt to operate at a profit, keep an old stadium, not upgrade the facilities and inevitably fall behind over the decades.

 

I see ST sales have done well 65% take up on last year

Anybody get a email asking why you have not renewed-Surely they must now

New manager required and it will increase

 

Sounds like you're being sarcastic, but 65% take up in April is pretty damn decent.

 

Very poor i'm afraid shows how many want him gone Rob

 

Mate, it's April! That will easily be 90%+ by June and considering the season we've had that's not bad at all.

 

Last season was a "one off" there was a feeling of euphoric well being brought about by the new stadium and many people wished to be in at the start of the "opening" event this was reflected by the initial crowds dwindling by a few thousand as the season progressed, even though we were performing quite well.
I would have thought this season had we finished about 12th ST'S would have been around 85-90% of last season ...... around 11,500 so far this season we have 8,710
the initial rush is over dribbles to the close season and then obviously will depend on who what when and where .... I would think about 11 - 12,000 would be a happy number

 

Pretty much spot on tbf JGF.

 

I am really struggling with your points.

I did not state BCFC should be like Burnley. Its was an example your points of a club that spent less than BCFC and did not rack up astronomical losses. You are quite wrong to say that is an exception. Football clubs nation wide in every division do not lose money for fifteen consecutive seasons and operate for a significant period 100% more past their income like BCFC have.

Academy infra structure is not an annual cost. The cost is structured within budgets. The cost of BCFC's academy minus operating costs were a drop in the ocean v the club spending. The academy operating costs circa 800k for Cat 2 are an investment in the future which fulfils socio economic roles ... This can/could help the FC be more financially balanced.

Nowhere have I said City should operate like Burnley. Bristol City cannot due to being part of the Bristol Sport structure owned by Mr Lansdown. Mr Lansdowns Bristol City can only operate like Mr Lansdowns Bristol City, there are no parallels for this model.

Your point about league one is nonsense (sorry it is). Teams with less (far less) financial clout than Mr Lansdowns Bristol City progress each season. Its not all about money and nothing else , its about being well run, about making good decisions v a decade of piss poor ones. Mr Lansdowns focus changes almost by the season leading to poor decision making, Bristol City have spunked tens of millions up the wall and failed dismally. There is the crux the FC has been abysmally run.

 

It's really not that hard. If you actually answered the points rather than steered around to suit your agenda it would make things a lot easier for you. I'm not wrong to say that making losses is an exception, there are ****loads of crappily run clubs. We all know it. I'm going to drop it now anyway, we're clearly not going anywhere.