The EU debate - Part III

That's a rehash of the DM article Pete previously posted and NSIS has already shown that some key info was left out of it. Why no link this time?

 

I'm not saying other countries won't deal with us, I'm saying they won't automatically prioritise the UK simply because some of the population still misguidedly think we are the world's economic superpower. In reality we're gradually dropping down that league table.

It's naive and arrogant to think that all other countries are panicking about not having a trade deal with the U.K.

 

The Tories haven't even set out what is negotiable and what isn't, and seemingly can't even agree between themselves

Davis states that the likelihood of us managing to stay within the single market is "improbable" and then Downing Street denies this is the collective view and it's far from a policy decision.

They're about to wander into a negotiation with the entire EU with what seems to be a 'back of a fag packet' plan. Who's actually empowered to make the call anyway? What mandate has May or any of them got to decide unilaterally what the entire UK will consider to be an acceptable deal? They've made comments that protecting our borders was the will of the Nation, but when did we get a vote on that like??? We voted to leave or stay in the EU didn't we? I thought immigration wasn't the prime factor?????

 

Control is whats needed not full unlimited immigration. That will be the biggest stumbling block for both sides.

 

Lots to read there. A quick skim through does indicate that they want trade to continue much as before and that common standards will still be required for intra Europe trade.
I haven't checked the other areas yet.
I am surprised that no leave supporters flagged this up earlier as it would have given us a basis for intelligent discussion and not argue over banner headlines and soundbites

 

Good thread. Needs more misleading headlines and Daily Mail links though.

 

That's as maybe, but we didn't have a vote about immigration that was my point. They've seemingly decided that it's the key issue, when plenty on here have been telling us for months that it wasn't the prime factor, it was about wanting to leave the EU with it's federalist ideals?

So who has given them the mandate to treat immigration as a 'non negotiable'?

 

The Huffington post is an ultra right wing rag not very convincingly dressed up as representing liberal thought.

http://www.realnewspost.org/sa.php?a=43331

 

Custard, I answered all this in a lengthy post earlier. Try reading what those banks said in its entirety, not just selected parts from the Daily Granny Scarer!...

 

As if there's going to be a "pile" and they deal with one negotiation at a time.
The negotiations with the EU will be slowest, as you say, because the EU will be arguing among themselves. While the UK waits for the EU to stop arguing the UK can be negotiating with 50 or more other countries.

 

Who's going to do this like?

Where's the specialist resource coming from to carry out 50 complex trade agreement negotiations simultaneously?

 

There's estimated to be around one million British citizens in the rest of the EU. There must be more in the rest of the world. Even if the UK tried to stop all immigration they couldn't stop UK citizens returning.
As people say, the UK doesn't mind immigration - they just want to control it. What's not to like?

 

Ask no questions, hear no lies.

 

I see what you are saying.
So many different things that people voted out for, some immigration control, some to keep money back from EU others dont want to be part of a superstate.
We all know everything will be negotiable, its just wait and see whats on offer now

 

No mate, we all know that everything SHOULD be negotiable, but the sound bites coming out from the likes of Davis and May intimate that immigration i.e. free movement isn't to be moved on. They're in danger of painting themselves into a corner before they even start!

 

Same as what the EU are saying, both sides will give in to some degree and both sides will hail a victory.

 

What's on offer is about right...that's pretty much exactly what it'll be with the EU.

It goes back to what was said right at the start, we exchanged the position we had for a 'trust me' future.

As much as I despise Blair, he was right in his analogy of it being akin to somebody telling you to sell your house because they've seen one you'll like better. You're not allowed to actually see it, but trust me you'll love it, it's better!..

Would you go for that?....

 

Or just put everyone on ignore!

 

No its more akin to someone asking you to ask your family if they would be willing to sell the house because there is a better one. And them saying yes, but it hasnt actually been put on the market yet. All you have done is ask them and they have said yes.
Thats all the referendum has done.

 

It's a rubbish analogy.
A much better analogy is ending a relationship because it isn't working for you.
You don't know whether the next relationship or relationships will be better but you have learned from your mistakes and there's plenty to look forward to.