Off Topic The Politics Thread

It's a perfect way to reduce the Welfare bill, as there would be no need for Tax Credits. No chance of them actually doing it though, because it's too much like Socialism.

 

Cynic! It'll be interesting to see how the government reacts. I assume big business will be against

 

The other reason they won't do it is that taxes would have to rise to pay for higher costs in the Public sector. This is the first chance for 18 years for the Tories to fully make their nasty right-wing mark, and Osborne will make the most of it.

 

Public sector low earners have generally been better paid that those in private. Took this from the Office of National Statistics review of last year:

"Looking at those who are among the lowest earners in each sector, using the bottom 5% as a cut
off point, public sector workers earned on average around 13% more than private sector workers
in 2013 when adjusting for the different jobs and personal characteristics of the workers. When
further adjusting for the different organisational sizes the estimate was around 8% more."

 

I've just about lost the will to try to understand the Islam thing. The whole thing is making me adopt positions I don't like but can't see the alternative to. This family from Luton - I mean who cares, they want to go, they've gone, just don't let them back.

The China thing is fascinating, a totalitarian state trying to have 'managed' capitalism. My concern isn't only economics, it's bloodshed.

Can't see many faults in this argument. Those companies which say they can't afford to pay a living wage arguably don't have a sound business model anyway as they are essentially state supported.

 

massive Greek 'Oxi" to the terms of the bail out. Now it gets interesting, creditors face getting none of their precious cash back, Greeks face being cut adrift entirely. I think some kind of compromise is inevitable.

 

Looks like Europe isn't as good as people seem to think?

China has always interested me and agree with SB it is fascinating how this country works. Now if our conspiracy theorist discussed that, that would be interesting. Secret state where whole villages disappear or underground sites as big as small villages. Funny lot

 

The Chinese Government tried to bolster the markets today,,, worked for a bit an 8% rise, but have fallen back again since. Someone will be denounced as corrupt (used to be 'capitalist roader'), incarcerated and quietly shot for that.

In Greece Yannis has resigned, as he continues his attempt to play left wing game theory with this crisis, like some kind of intellectual puzzle. The French and Germans are meeting (it's mostly their money anyway) to decide what to do next. The markets are down by 3% - by coincidence about the size of Greek GDP in the Eurozone.

 

I'm thinking the Greeks will play the part of a potential bankrupt and offer a couple of cents in the dollar on what they owe whilst still being free to carrying on with their irresponsible lifestyle choices and puppet government. Eventually, sadly, their fall will be greater.

The Australian stock market lost about millions today because of the no vote. Personally, I'd now wipe my hands of them, you can't educate donkeys.
Sorry to any Greek 'R'rssss supporters caught up in the mess.

 

Well lets hope that your children don't end up malnourished because you've lost your business and rely on church charity due to events totally beyond your control, with some twat from the other side of the world moaning about his stock market and your irresponsibility. This is about people.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/06/greece-food-crisis-summer-austerity

 

I guess my point is all about people being responsible for their own actions. For too many years,Greece refuse to pay taxes and it's come back to bite them on the bum, yet again ................ meanwhile, other people, from other countries have to bale them out time and time again. I don't think it is fair, that's all.

 

It's about people being sold a pup by their government. Tsipras has actually played a political blinder here, he goes to negotiate, comes away saying 'no deal', then accepts but insists it goes to referendum saying 'vote no' and he's got the popular vote without the blame for the impending disaster. Greek politics has suffered over inflated egos for decades and nothing has changed, give into them now and the rest of the 'PIGS' will have the perfect excuse to follow...

 

The majority of Greeks did pay their taxes. Look it up. They are being held responsible for the actions of those who didn't, corrupt politicians and bankers, and a crappily thought out currency zone. Do you think that's fair? 500 more Greek men are commiting suicide every year since this crisis began. Do you think that's fair? I'm sorry if the value of your shares has dropped, but that's the risk you take playing with capitalism. I think that's fair.

 

I doubt that'll happen. The Pigs have all undergone their own austerity programmes and as far as I know they're starting to emerge out the other side. Ireland is pretty much out of it now and thankfully didn't go the way of Greece. Portugal and Spain, although still struggling, are doing their best to pay back their creditors and I think they'll be fine. You're right about Greece though. If you take on a loan you can't wriggle out of it. They're going to have to accept the terms they're offered and dig their way out of the hole they plunged themselves into.

 

The price of shares is not my point, from what l have read and seen on current affair programs over the years, I'm of the opinion that taxes haven't been paid. No one likes paying taxes but if it is a national pastime. Then something is amiss. Maybe what I've seen and read is wrong or that I've interpreted wrong, whatever, I'm just saying. I don't dislike the Greeks, I just dislike people who openly bludge on others. Anyway, to each their own, cheers.

 

fair enough Aussie, and I don't disagree at all re tax dodgers, just as bad, if not worse, than welfare scroungers. My point, rather hysterically put, is that a lot of blameless people are suffering, and I'm willing to bet the biggest tax dodgers are not amongst them.

 

This is quite a good summary of the Euro Crisis, even though it's a year old. A little soft on the creditors/banks (not surprising given the source) but very clear that a monetary union could never work without a fiscal union as well, which would entail sacrifice of sovereignty into a Federal Europe. Personally no problem with that, our government might as well be from Mars (and in the case of Boris Johnson probably is) as Westminster for me, but I can understand the angst that it causes. Actually the way the federal US works, individual States have a lot of power remaining within a monetary and fiscal union.

In terms of the current situation, seems we have quite a lot to thank Gordon Brown and Norman Lamont for. Never thought I'd say that.

 

The people in the different States of America are all American though. If we joined in a United States of Europe, it would be made up of different Nationalities etc.
Not for me!! (But then you know that already).

It was so obvious that monetary union was never going to work, with a one size fits all philosophy.
I quite like Boris..........don't be fooled..........he isn't stupid!

 

Did you like the YouTube clip Col? I was quite impressed.

Boris is far from stupid. A lot of his persona seems to me to be an act, one that he is so used to he doesn't need to put it on any more.

Budget day tommorrow, the first Tory one for nearly 20 years. Osborne could deal Boris' ambitions a mortal blow.

 

Osborne delivers a classic and far reaching Tory budget, hard to criticise him for that, including a rather amusing swipe at Boris and a very clever introduction of the National Living Wage right at the end (it's just an upgrade/rebadging of the minimum wage and doesn't apply to under 25 year olds, but nevertheless.....).

Harman all over the place with her response (the most difficult job in politics, the budget response) doesn't know whether to talk about economics, politics or what type of opposition Labour will be. Radio 4 have just faded her out mid sentence.