Off Topic The Politics Thread

Pat nails it ........

 

It really depends on the importance of the issue as to whether we revisit. We were not going to go to war in 1939, having determined in Parliament that a policy of appeasement with Germany was our decision. We all know how that changed.

There have been plenty of laws that were passed, and then repealed or changed, over the years, as we learnt more about the issue.

Why should this be any different?

 

I agree. Let's declare war again.

 

You joke, but seriously, some of the anti-european vitriol I've seen makes me wonder of some people wouldn't see that as a good thing...

 

I'm sure we can all agree to disagree... interesting video, website etc. thanks for the heads up.

 

Agree that was wrong but people listened to Tony Blair about the EU yet he was a war criminal that lied to the country costing many British soldiers their lives and many thousands of foreign families.

 

You wouldn't believe he got his own way would you?

 

Smug, moi?

For someone who's definitely not a bit racist or xenophobic, he seems rather preoccupied with the 'dregs of humanity' coming to rape our women.

 

He's spent years posting anti religious, and especially anti Islamic, pieces, which of course I applaud, in spirit if not in detail (I haven't listened to them). Dawkins used to like him. He has also variously come out in favour of Geert Wilders, the EDL and the much more moderate UKIP.

What I wonder is if he has an Irish passport as he was born in Dublin.

Here's a much too reasonable response to his anti 48% rant:
https://llblawg.com/2017/04/04/my-open-letter-to-pat-condell-re-brexit/

 

Stan and Strolls kind of make his point for him with their responses.

 

Oh no Col, he made his point for himself. Inspired me to look him up.

Sadly for him, he's already lost. He wants a country where everyone looks and thinks like him. Thankfully not going to happen.

 

Completely agree - I'm very even handed in this respect - Blair is a war criminal and deserves to be prosecuted - I'm unsure how this is anything but a straw man argument to support your anti EU sentiment., or are you intimating that his pro EU position caused his war crimes?

 

Quite... a respectful and measured response... unlike the original.

 

The thing is, though I have taken an instant dislike to him, I can totally understand the fundamental point he is trying to make (or one of them at least) that for some people this was about gut feel, some kind of principle, it really was about 'taking back control' not just on a national but a personal level too. The lack of respect between both sides makes it easier for him to express his frustration with those us us who saw it as a calculation in terms of bile and hatred (totally missing the irony of attacking his own fellow Brits, where his anger is usually reserved for foreigners it seems). It is incredibly frustrating for both sides of the arguments because our terms of reference are completely different. And the result is division and trench warfare. Probably would have been the same if the result were the other way round too.

The scary thing his his and others' frustration and anger will only grow, as it becomes clear that even if we go through with Brexit, everything will feel the same or worse at a national, and for many, personal, level. No 'control' meaningful to an individual will be won back.

 

Are they going to ban all combustion engine vehicles or just cars? Strikes me lorries, buses, coaches, tractors, motorbikes, scooters the lot need to be taken out for this to make sense. And planes.

 

Yes. Clever of you to change the subject nicely as the right have gone off to sulk. How far are we with electric car technology? The idea appeals to me but for someone who regularly drives across the country because I have to, it makes no sense yet because batteries don't have enough capacity to get you there and back on one charge. Also, I don't fancy spending days at a time at charging points waiting in a queue to pay a price that is equivalent to the cost of a tank of petro/diesel. At least I think that's the case because if you ever look for any pricing it ain't there. Presumably it lights up and tells you once you've plugged in and given your credit card details. Are there many charging points about in city centres yet? Newcastle has a few

 

Perhaps, and certainly that was the slogan bandied around by the leave campaign, but I can't help thinking it has appealed to a lot of people who - rather like the Trump campaign - are sick and tired of feeling exploited, marginalised and even ignored and are looking for scapegoats - the EU and migrants are an easy target but we will see whether, as you say, the leaving (however it happens) will have the desired effect.

The problem for me is that 'gut feel' is an irrelevance - it's like the current vogue for feeling offended... it has no substance and no more claim to being heeded than any other opinion - I have a gut feeling that Brexit is going to be an absolute ****show, but without anything concrete to back it up it ends up as a "so what?".

It's clear the 2 sides don't agree on the very basics - and until we see some actual detail of the deal that will be offered it's difficult to take vague statements like 'taking back control' as anything more than the slogans for the leave campaign.

 

TBH is isn't going to be this government who will have to sort it out anyway, but it does make some nice copy for the papers to fuss over. I would imagine the infrastructure costs to facilitate electric vehicles properly - and the resulting loss of tax revenues on fuel will ensure it is quietly shelved in a year or so.

 

Volvo will only sell electric cars in three years, Britain and France will only sell/makl electric cars from 2040. It will happen very quickly, you had better get used to it.

 

He said it once, didn't he?