Off Topic The QPR Not 606 Rolling Election Poll

I don't disagree with in principle but IDS has taken this way beyond that. I have a major spinal condition that can quite clearly be seen on MRI and X-Rays yet ATOS still deemed was I capable of working with 3 collapsed discs which was clearly compressing the nerves in my spine. The need to weed out the malingerers is needed but the heavy handed way in which it is done and the total refusal to listen to medical personnel which understand these conditions far better than the unqualified or wrongly qualified staff of ATOS is a joke. I was once interviewed by a nurse who had never worked in a orthopaedic department in her career. I myself worked in the NHS in medical capacity and took part in many orthopaedic surgical procedures. Her lack of knowledge was ridiculous. Yet due to her conclusions I found myself having to challenge her findings. I'm just glad it was before the withdrawal of legal aid for these kind of cases. I urge you, please don't be fooled by the deliberate muddying of the water on this by politicians. Go look it up for yourselves. This is one of the most abhorrent cases of deliberate misinformation by politicians of modern times.

 

Thank mate.

 

Sorry, but my own experiences with the NHS have never shown me any 'bullying' or 'targeting'. That's very inflammatory language and I cannot believe it's the way it is done.

 

Chaz, why would someone with medical qualifications go and work for a company like ATOS if they were any good at their job. Also don't confuse ATOS with the NHS. ATOS was the problem. (The company replacing them is even worse sadly.) The NHS, while having some issues is something we should all be proud of. They have never let me down in all my years of struggling with my condition.

 

The comments are aimed at ATOS and their ilk who have the agenda of getting people back into work (or weeding out the frauds uf that makes you happier).

The NHS has no such agenda and their problems are genuine resource issues that I sympathise with.

 

It's not a case of making me 'happier'. No need to drift from the issues and make negative judgements about other people's viewpoints...

 

But Chaz, I think you misinterpreted his point. I think he was pointing out that you mistook our pointing out it is ATOS that is the problem not the NHS. You viewpoint is correct re. the NHS but we aren't talking about the NHS we are talking about ATOS. Two very different things.

 

After a quick bit of digging and a word with someone I know who campaigns on behalf of the disabled of this country. They came up with this little nugget.

by the govt own figures fraud rates in sickness and disabled benefits is %0.7 so weeding out the small number of fakes is disproportionate to the damaged cause to the %99.3 of claimants!!!

 

I actually think he misinterpreted MY point. he seems to think I'm happy with this, when I'm clearly not. ATOS have made mistakes, but my point is still that anybody who thinks that the process is driven by bullying and targeting instead of a) validating real conditions; b) identifying those people who CAN work; and c) identifying those that are cheating the honest people, are at least in part wrong. It's certain that any large organisation will contain overzealous people who go about the job in a way that causes distress and anger, but that's a very small minority that gives the rest a bad name. ANY organisation - the police, the army, the NHS and yes, ATOS, will suffer from this.

It's terrible that you seem to have been caught up in this, but i don't need other members accusing me of being happy about it.

 

More points about food banks...........

another common misconception is that you can just roll up to a food bank and get food coz your skint from having iphone and sky tv....this is just not true...you have to be refered (by social services, gp, police, supposedly job centres but they never do!!) and you can only a 3 day supply of food and you can only get that 3 times per year!! also the very vast majority of reasons cited as to needing food bank was due to sanctions or dwp mis(mal) administration ie not paying on time...delaying compleation of applications for benefits etc

 

Probably without the data gathered by ATOS etc, we wouldn't know that. Two sides, and all that. This benefit costs the UK £13.9 billion. Any percentage of that is a lot of money.

 

1) It is not a mistake if the company is using unqualified staff to come to conclusions.
2) That is exactly what they do. I have suffered this myself. It's only my own strength of character and medical knowledge that made it difficult for them in my own case but many who don't have my knowledge or strength of character have been abused by the system.
3)It's not being overzealous when there are targets being given from the DWP. How can you have targets for something that in each case should be being taken on it's own merits. Something that by the nature of it has to be done that way.

 

also...if atos weren't target driven then why were so many people appealing their decisions (approx %40) and winning? the win rate was %60 (%90 if you had legal representation) It is no surprise that the Govt then stopped legal aid in these cases (and many other areas for that matter) It was a good way to get the numbers down. Add to the legal aid changes the fact that if your application for sickness benefit (ESA) is turned down you can no longer appeal straight away, you must first go through 'mandatory reconsideration' where the DWP reviews it decission, only after that you can appeal (with no legal aid) sounds fine in practice except for Two things 1: there is no time limit on how long the the DWP can take to review the case (think of the backlogs) and 2: From when your benefits are refused you will no longer receive any money until after the 'mandatory reconsideration' you are advised to sign on to Job seekers, yet clearly a lot of those people can not meet the conditions of JSA and get sanctioned (think of the high sucess rate of appeals) at the same time that the DWP close your esa claim as you cant have 2 claims open at the same time...these are some of the subversive tactics that have been used against the sick and disabled to manipulate the figures and supposedly save money

 

I'll find out where that figure (%0.7 I mean) is taken from but I don't think it came from ATOS.

 

The 0.7% is from the govt (The DWP) not ATOS and it may well have been from ATOS work but to be honest it is a moot point in my mind. But what you have said comes acreoss to me as... it's ok to attack over 99.3% of genuinely vulnerable people for the sake of catching the very few.

Let me add that the amount of money lost to fraud is half that of DWP errors and a quater of the amount of unclaimed benefits that people dont know they are entitled to. Also DWP's own figures.

They would save more if they could do their jobs properly rather than chase down an extremely small number of fraud cases. I agree the fraud needs to be stopped but the fraud is nothing in comparison to their own mistakes.

 

I was merely saying that my terminology would be more to your liking than the content or message.

Sorry if I have upset you.

ATOS were target driven and I don't think anyone can assume the results would be primarily at the expense of the fraudulent few. I still hold the notion that genuine claimants have less ability to fight negative outcomes and so would be better options for meeting said targets.

 

One final point as this is starting to make my blood boil. Just remember that everyone is just an accident away form having to go through this. I hope you never have a car crash or industrial accident Chaz, or you could find yourself on the receiving end of this kind of treatment yourself.

EDIT: Apologies Chaz, This comes across as a bit personal. This is an emotive subject for me and that wasn't my intention.

 

Looks like your impartial OP has pissed you off SB now UKIP have over taken Labour.

 

If you can find any funny and witty right wing populist art I'll post that too. But I can't pretend that I have any time for the kippers.

 

I really don't have time for any of them, over here it is just the same although the new Podemos party has put the gato amongst the palomas! Rather like UKIP but from the opposite direction.