1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The state of the NHS...

Discussion in 'Hull City' started by Kempton, Jan 8, 2015.

  1. Barchullona

    Barchullona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    29,658
    Likes Received:
    14,737
    I can only assumed you are very young, naive, or both. The NHS was set up as a NATIONAL health service which we paid a contribution out of our wages for and in return received treatment. It wasn't set up as an International Health Service where we pay for anyone who rolls up. In 1948 they could not have envisaged the ease of travel and possibility to turn up here that we have now.
    If we travel abroad we need health insurance. Other countries insist on having health insurance as a condition of entry and do not provide free treatment until you have resided or contributed for 2 years or so. Are they all racist?
    Even Docialist Cuba now demands proof of health insurance and if you don't have any you have to purchase a government organised one at the airport.
    I have no objections to paying additional taxes to help fund an NHS for myself should I need it and for my fellow citizens who have also contributed. I don't see why I should be expected to pay for people who have contributed nothing.
     
    #61
    look_back_in_amber likes this.
  2. look_back_in_amber

    look_back_in_amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,068
    Likes Received:
    7,687
    Totally agree Lambo. My ex-brother-in-law, like an idiot, married a Kenyan half his age, brought her across here, helped her gain citizenship, helped her get on a course at university, helped her get a job, and paid for flights so that her mother could stay at their house for a few weeks twice a year. The first thing the mother would do would be arrange to see the daughters doctor to having a full medical check and resolve any ailments that she was suffering, obviously all for free.

    After five years his wife walked out on him, after gaining the qualification she needed to be fully financially independent in the UK, she never gave any genuine reason other than they just weren't getting on. She also has a friend in a neighbouring East Riding village that's done exactly the same thing with her fella. Stupid old fools you may think, and I'd agree, however the point that I'm probably poorly attempting to make is that is just one example of health tourists being added to the NHS production line whilst elderly patients from the UK, that have paid their taxes all their lives, are abandoned for hours on end in hospital corridors. This is the kind of stuff that really grips my ****!
     
    #62
  3. look_back_in_amber

    look_back_in_amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,068
    Likes Received:
    7,687
    And that mindset right there is just one of many reasons that the NHS is struggling financially!
     
    #63
  4. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    14,448
    Likes Received:
    10,244
    The NHS was set up as a NATIONAL health service which we paid a contribution out of our wages for and in return received treatment. It wasn't set up as an International Health Service where we pay for anyone who rolls up.


    There are lots of reasons why the NHS needs an overhaul, the treatment of visitors is only one of them but it's an easy target. To say that we pay in and get treatment in return is far too simplistic. British or not lots of people have never paid in but are entitled to treatment, would you deny them? I'm thinking of for example, my Mum who has been a wife and mother all her life and never worked, people on benefits, unemployed people, etc, etc. Also some folk earn more than others and so pay in more, should they get better treatment? Should an unemployed British man, obese 'cos all he eats is chips, never worked in his life be entitled to treatment at all? Another issue is that the kind of illnesses we are seeing now is different to that of years ago and corresponding treatments are more varied and consequently more expensive.

    If I had a few weeks to spare I'd like to find out what proportion of annual NHS spending goes on treating foreigners be they 'health visitors', refugees, or whatever. I'd suggest it's fairly small. If anyone out there knows please enlighten us!

    I'm not opposed to the notion of health insurance as suggested by many on here but it's only a possible solution to what, in my opinion, is a relatively small problem. It might appease the 'fed up of foreigners coming here etc...' section of the population but I don't think it would change the operation of the NHS at all.

    Personally I think providing some sort of health service for anybody who needs it is a sign that we are a reasonably civilised set of people and I think a way of making it affordable needs to be found.
     
    #64
  5. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    107,537
    Likes Received:
    64,732
    Government figures in 2013, said that the treatment of foreign nations cost the NHS £2.6b a year. Around £2b is EU nationals, which we can do nothing about, though for reasons I don't really understand, we only manage to claim back £6-700m from the countries they come from. It's estimated that £500m could be saved by refusing to treat non-EU nationals for free, many of whom are considered to be 'health tourists'.
     
    #65
  6. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    14,448
    Likes Received:
    10,244
    Thanks for that, I believe the NHS budget for 2014-2015 was around £115b so foreign visitors are relatively small beer in the overall scheme of things.
     
    #66
  7. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    107,537
    Likes Received:
    64,732
    It is, but in the BBC article those figures are from, it did point out that £500m could fund an extra 4,000 doctors.
     
    #67
  8. C'mon ref

    C'mon ref Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,655
    Likes Received:
    912
    For and organisation that goes through so many govermental 'reoganisations', all in the name of a better service mind you, I think it does remarkably well overall, but like all large organisations there are mess ups and let downs and the NHS has its fair share. But whenever I've been sat waiting at Hull Royal I am always aware of the amount of work the staff put in under tremendously stressing circumstances esspecially during a night time. A few times when home accidents have neccessitated a hospital visit there has been the added circumstances of piss artists causing havoc in A&E for which I wouldn't have had any paitence other than to throw them out.

    I have been using the NHS from the year I was born on a regular basis, and still am, and I am eternally gratefull to the likes of Aneurin Bevan for the creation of such an organisation with all its flaws. £8 million has just been spent at HRI for mainly cosmetic improvements and more wards are being introduced I believe so there are going to be no large scale new hospitals being built in the area that's for sure and as with other areas of govermental expenditure Hull will not greatly benefit from any future new hospitals.
     
    #68
    Charlie1 and Kempton like this.
  9. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    14,448
    Likes Received:
    10,244
    That may be so but if 4000 doctors was going to solve the problem of the NHS £500m would be found somewhere without having to consider whether or not they treat 'foreigners'. Anyway, I'm not sure there are 4000 doctors out there waiting to be recruited, it's a bit of meaningless reporting by the BBC.
     
    #69
    Kempton likes this.
  10. Dr.Stanley O'Google, HCFC

    Dr.Stanley O'Google, HCFC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    17,041
    Likes Received:
    3,374
    One proposal would seem to be that we train doctors, specialists, surgeons, etc - and then let them ferk off to the US/Canada/Oz etc where they can earn stacks of money.

    Wait a minute...
     
    #70

  11. Barchullona

    Barchullona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    29,658
    Likes Received:
    14,737
    And in return we recruit the same people from poorer countries whose training will have cost them proportionately more.
    Though, contrary to popular opinion a lot of people in the health service, doctors, specialists etc are relatively well paid in comparison to other countries.
     
    #71
  12. Barchullona

    Barchullona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    29,658
    Likes Received:
    14,737
    That isn't the point.
     
    #72
  13. originallambrettaman

    originallambrettaman Mod Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2011
    Messages:
    107,537
    Likes Received:
    64,732
    please log in to view this image
     
    #73
  14. Barchullona

    Barchullona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    29,658
    Likes Received:
    14,737
    Not exactly underpaid compared to others, are they? And, paid more than some countries often described has having a better health service than ours.
     
    #74
  15. GlassHalfHull

    GlassHalfHull Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    371
    One point is that policing the overseas health tourists also costs money, so any nett gain is unknown until you've costed up the bureaucracy to recover costs. It would likely be outsourced to ATOS or Capita and they'd profit from the political will to tackle the problem. In all likelihood the country as a whole would benefit more from putting the resources into health care rather than admin. Anyway, how does everyone feel about housing benefit? ...
     
    #75
    thistimetigers likes this.
  16. Barchullona

    Barchullona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    29,658
    Likes Received:
    14,737
    Other countries seem to recover costs for treatment better than we do. Maybe their pub sector bureaucrats are better and more efficient than ours?
     
    #76
  17. Plum

    Plum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    14,448
    Likes Received:
    10,244
    I think it is the point. The ills of the NHS won't be solved by stopping, or charging for, treatment of foreign nationals, it's a drop in the ocean. Treatment of foreign nationals is simply one issue in the overall problem. Yes we could take drastic action like not treating them unless they can prove they can pay but it won't make the slightest difference to the bigger problem which is that the NHS isn't really fit for purpose in the 21st century. I'm sure some folk, supporters of a new-ish political party for example, would love to see such drastic action but frankly I couldn't give a monkey's toss about them, I'd rather live in a country which looks outward and shows compassion those in need, even the fat unemployed blokes who eat too many chips.
     
    #77
  18. Kempton

    Kempton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    24,472
    Likes Received:
    19,020
    At this juncture, I'd just like to point out that Kempton snr is of slim build, worked all his life, never once took a flask or wore a blanket over his knees at games and is now responding well to treatment. He bloody loves having those nurses fuss over him and particularly enjoys the bed baths. He's doing ok <ok>
     
    #78
  19. Chazz Rheinhold

    Chazz Rheinhold Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    53,751
    Likes Received:
    43,955
    Rudolpho has lovely soft hands I've heard
     
    #79
    originallambrettaman and Kempton like this.
  20. Kempton

    Kempton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    Messages:
    24,472
    Likes Received:
    19,020
    <laugh>
     
    #80

Share This Page