Something I am conscious of which disappoints me is that the number of people posting on this board has reduced a lot over the years. I do not really know why. Some people think it is because some threads are divisive while others believe that having a good debate encourages posting. There is always going to be some loss over time as people find other interests but you would hope at the same time we can attract new people. The one thing that is not really sensible is to lose people because they dislike the anger that sometimes surfaces – arguments as opposed to debates are not good. I wonder if we could agree on some basic rules of politeness that we all will agree to try to maintain. I will kick off with a starter for 10 and hope others will chip in to agree, amend or add. 1 We will not insult a poster – if we disagree it is acceptable to say “that argument is stupid” but not “you are stupid” for making the statement. It is a subtle but important point. None of our posters are stupid – otherwise they would be supporting the team up the M1 and not our club. We are all intelligent and nice people but we can strongly disagree with each others’ points. 2 We will try not to post long cut and paste articles. They get in the way and it is better, if you feel it is worth referring to them, to put in a link. Best is to just summarise the points made and say where it comes from if anyone wants to follow it up. Remember though that we are not all the same when it comes to making points – some people argue well – other, like me, ramble, and others prefer to use outside material. So long as something is “said” the means is not too critical – if you do post a long article at least highlight the one or two key items you want to get over so that others can reply to the key message. 3 We will accept points made even if we feel they are just dogma or propaganda. If we feel the points are not worth commenting on that is fine but let us not tell another person what they should post. Some people have a debating style that is just to make a statement and step back – not everyone can defend their arguments in the same way. 4 Without using the ignore button it is perfectly possible to ignore points you don’t like – just don’t comment on them. 5 Do not deliberately WUM. Sometimes we will inadvertently make a comment that does wind up – but it is not clever to just try to get under someone’s skin. We are a family here – keep it “nice”. There is nothing wrong with apologising if you do make a comment that in hindsight you regret. If we met in a pub we would probably get along fine –the written word often comes over more harshly than when we speak. 6 Assume your fellow debater believes what they say – even if for you it seems impossible – if they are so wrong it should be easy to point out the flaws. If after trying they don’t listen – move on – the rest of the board will probably have made up their minds who was more effective. Lastly - please give your views on all of this. If we can get this right and either attract back some lost posters or encourage "lurkers" to dip their feet in the water without some shark biting them it will be good. If you disagree with what I have written tell me what and where. If you think we need to stop controversial threads altogether - or have more and a wider variety then say so too. A board gets stale if we let it.
It's difficult to find fault in any of your points Leo, all I would add is, if you feel you are being provoked, leave the thread and do something to take your mind off it, then return and re-read the post after a few hours break and see if you may have been a bit hasty, it happens to all of us in the heat of the moment!
Leo The political and brexit threads are both toxic and tribal Both sides deny aggression and rudeness but both sides are guilty of both I do not even read the posts any more It is very sad that we all agree on virtually all other topics but those two
The entire campaign up to Brexit was toxic and tribal - our debates have covered more ground, and included more actual information than the 2 referendum campaigns managed. Which is something to pat ourselves on the backs for. Yes, it was all pretty divisive - but so was Brexit itself, it ripped our nation into pieces and putting it back together again is not a task which I envy anyone. As Leo says - 'You're being silly' is ok but 'You're silly' isn't. You can attack a person's ideas but not the person themselves. We are not 'our ideas', and the way we come at our political opinions is often pure coincidence, and we should remember that. Debating means exchanging ideas, and it would be boring if our ideas were all the same. I can happily agree to what Leo has said but also add that we should avoid stereotypes ie. whether regarding Rumanian fruit pickers, Trotskyists or whatever - if their only use is to wind others up. Maybe we need to all agree to a set of rules. The other point I have to make is that the best way of dealing with threads you don't like is to ignore them - and maybe start your own thread about something which interests you. Generally, the more threads we have the better and if they were confined only to football ones then the forum would be a poorer place.
Thanks for feedback. I think you have expressed that perfectly. Unfortunately I also think that your reaction is shared by many - and worse that it drives some away altogether. This is why I want to air this subject. I can live with people staying on the board and posting on all other threads but ignoring those two (I would include the religion thread too but that has been allowed to wither). At least that keeps people here for other topics. What I fear is those who have left completely due solely to those threads. I personally think there are very few in that category - suspect it is one or two - but even one is a shame. It would be better if we could still have those threads though and have polite debate - not school ground behaviour. If we are able to "turn" those threads into sensible discussion it enhances the board - we really should be adult enough to discuss controversial subjects without nastiness.
Thanks Dave - yes going away and taking a bit of a time out is helpful. And Cologne you are right - brexit is possibly the most divisive and toxic tribal subject the UK has seen in generations. Even so - if we are going to debate on here we must find a way to make points that we believe in (knowing others violently disagree) in the hope that somebody else will be interested in our argument. You and I have had some great ding dongs - we agee on some things but disagree on many others but I respect you and love your historical knowledge about politics - I still feel you must be some professor in an obscure Bavarian University in disguise.
Good - the hardest part is not replying when someone feels they have been unfairly insulted. I would encourage us all to follow Dave's advice and take a time out if we feel tempted to respond in kind - there is always a more mature way to deal with childish insults. I wish I had taken this advice on more than one occasion.
I can only speak personally, but I'd left the site for a couple of years for personal reasons (I was previously SalisburyKev - and here from the start, when we moved over from the BBC forums). I've moved around a little, and moved jobs, and only now I am settled again, so pop on when I can. Nothing really to do with the board and the content. Sometimes life just gets in the way... I have stayed away from the political threads as you tend to get the two sides just dismissing the other's arguments as propaganda, made up, scare tactics etc. SH didn't really help himself the way he posted as it didn't really leave much up to debate and just felt like spamming, but it also felt like it was 'him against them'. I probably can't put my own point as eloquently as I might, so just stayed out of it. My own personal view was I would have preferred to remain, but mainly because 'better the devil you know'. It was never going to be as bad as Remain predicted, but not as good as Leave wanted you to think. It's happened now so we just have to try and make the best of it while trying to keep good relations with the rest of Europe. In general though, I think our area is one of the better ones (even if lacking a few numbers). You just have to read some of the other ones, especially the general PL one, to see it's just so much arguing, 'WUMing', insults, and it is hard to fathom what grown-ups get out of it. I;ve only been back on here a couple of weeks but haven't seen too much to put me off coming on here, and even think SH is posting better on the Brexit thread rather than the C&P stuff. Even some of the other pages seems to have reduced in numbers - such as the Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd boards... so not sure it is exclusive to us. But thanks for posting Leo... and I'm sure we can all live in harmony, with the occasional polite disagreement
Thanks for that- now I don't know if you have gone more or less posh Salisbury to Islington. Salisbury always sounds posh (isn't Theo from that neck of the woods?) but the "Islington Set " Phew.
Well Salisbury always liked to think it was posh, but never considered it that posh - wannabe-snobs maybe! I work in Angel now so Islington is perfect location-wise
We lived in Fordingbridge for a couple of years and really liked Salisbury. Some of the villages south of Salisbury are quite posh, maybe not quite posh enough for me though. I'm not sure if I should be thanking you on my posting or not
Emily Thornberry is the MP for Islington South, hopefully Kev does not own a white van!! Alternatively if you mean Comrade Corbyn, Islington North, it is a job to know what he stands for anymore as he changes his policies twice a day now.
I played for the Fordingbridge Turks for a little while... until I tore my calf. Also went there quite a few times for a few drinks in a pub called The Ship. A work mate's almost-permanent position was standing at the bar there.
One thing that happens (and is even happening on this thread) is that the thread actually diverts away from the original purpose, so some who may not be regular contributors and look in occasionally decide to contribute based on the title of a thread, then look at recent posts and decide that they are unable to contribute as there is no consistency. This is something that will slowly happen on longer threads, but when it happens on shorter threads, I wonder why the thread was put there in the first place.
I was referring to JC. However this is a good example of something I would hope to see less of. You know that using phrases like Comrade Corbyn (whilst I am sure is meant only humourously by you) is a kind of wind up to others - as is saying he changes policies twice a day. We do not want to rub out fun on here but why not leave the "easy picking" comments like that out - it distracts people from answering your very good political points. I would equally like to see less of the easy jibes that used to be used by others against Cameron and Osborne. Let's assume politicians are honest and sincere and try to avoid labels as much as possible. I know you support an improved board so hope you can alter your style a tad. Cheers.