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Match Day Thread Tottenham Hotspur v Liverpool

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by PleaseNotPoll, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    When you have your first XI on the pitch and it is on form, then it's a "complete" team and you'd go into every game home or away with a realistic expectation of winning. That's a huge step forward because Spurs teams of the past have usually had an Achilles heel (or two). Liverpool. Utd, City and Arsenal are not complete teams and have obvious weaknesses even when the best XI (if you can work out what it is) is on the pitch. The problem for all managers - and always has been - is getting results when some of the best players are missing or are not in top form. That's when the best managers earn their corn.
     
    #181
  2. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    STOP CALLING HIM 'GNK'! <laugh>

    Jokes aside, I think you're right to an extent. The Chadli-out-Sissoko-in switch has hurt us the most. For all his faults (many of them imagined), Chadli guaranteed goals and assists from the bench. He was the closest thing we had to a 'Defoe sub' last season. The stupid thing about the Sissoko signing is not merely the fact that he is an inferior player in every way, but also the fact that we didn't actually need him to begin with. On Aug 30th we had Eriksen, Alli, Lamela, Son, GKN and Onomah competing for 3 spots. As little as I personally rate the latter, Poch obviously sees something in him and retained him as part of his plans. We had far more urgent need for a 3rd striker or some more midfield creativity than another AM.

    I don't think I'm over-simplifying things when the problems are actually very simple to identify and quite simple to solve. Stop pissing about like amateurs every single transfer window. Get targets in early, or not at all.
     
    #182
  3. Billy The Spur

    Billy The Spur Well-Known Member

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    I saw this result coming, everything pointed towards a Pool win. What I didnt expect was Poch`s dire tactics, he set us up to play straight into their hands, it was as if he has not seen how teams have got results against Pool of late. Also failure to adapt quick enough during the game to the problems coming down out left side was not good enough.

    Dier has been awful at times playing CB this season, he is too ponderous on the ball, gets caught in possession and misplaces passes, a lot of our defensive problems stem from him. His versatility is crucial and he was immense last season in the DM role, but I don`t see him good enough at CB. Davies was also dreadful but he was left terribly exposed and had no help dealing with Mane (which he needed). Wanyama also had a poor game, his worst for Spurs so far, maybe he could do with a rest, he has played most of our games so far.

    We had chances but again were not clinical enough to take them, if Son had taken a chance it may have been a different game but overall our forward players struggled to get into the game due to all the messing around at the back.
     
    #183
  4. "Thanks for that Brian"

    "Thanks for that Brian" Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree This was only the second or third game that I've predicted us to lose this season. It seemed obvious to many that our usual set-up played to their strengths. Having no Rose or Vertonghen with Davies and Dier at the back with Son ahead of them and playing to our usual pattern was doomed before the game started. DOING IT WAS BAD ENOUGH BUT EVERYONE KNEW WE WERE GOING TO DO IT AND THAT IT WAS UNLIKELY TO WORK. Citeh pressed us and we didn't like that much with a better balanced line-up

    We will need to be a whole lot cleverer than that to truly compete to win the PL.
     
    #184
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  5. remembercolinlee

    remembercolinlee Well-Known Member

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    Would love to say I call him GNK for your benefit but we all know that'sbollocks <laugh>
    Anyhow...GNK :bandit: was signed very early on in the window but OM were pissing around until the last day. He was a replacement for N'jie iirc. Janssen came in early and looked to be a very promising signing.
    Like I said, the Sissoko one made no sense to me but Chadli was not sold because of him. Chadli asked to go because he did not want to be a bench warmer.
    The over simplification I mentioned was to do with you comparing Bentaleb, Chadli and Mason with Sissoko, GNK <whistle> and Janssen.
    I think we are sseing why Mitchell was put on gardening leave!
    We are going to be third tonight with 13 games to go.
    City and United each spent over £170 m in the summer and Chelsea have remembered that they are actually footballers and Arsenal are a top 4 ever present. We are well in the mix with all but Chelsea.
    No one outside of spurs thought we'd be in with a hope of fighting for a top 4 position so we are doing well.
    If Jannsen and GNK <laugh> were practicable failures then I would agree with you but they weren't.
    Final point.
    Everyone forget just how many injuries we've had this season.
    Kane (5 or 6 weeks)
    Toby (7 weeks)
    Lamela ( 4 months so far)
    Rose (4-6 weeks expected)
    Vertongen ( 5 weeks so )
    Dembele (4 weeks)
    Yet we will still be third so our squad is stronger than in previous seasons so our recruitment can't be completely messd up
     
    #185
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  6. PowerSpurs

    PowerSpurs Well-Known Member

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    Every club signs more failures than successes. By any sensible measure our transfer activity has been one of our strongest points since Harry left. You can't judge the summer signings yet. The only way to get signings in early is to overpay. Our five rivals can afford to do that - we can't.
     
    #186
  7. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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  8. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    So the boys saw the call of potential Spursy fixture, and raised that in the first half with a <standard> .
    And of course Chelsky can get by while all their rivals damage each other. :(
     
    #188
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  9. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    I'd like to respond to these two points as I do tend to agree with everything else you've said PS, especially the reality that every club in every transfer window is essentially tossing a coin to find out if their business will reap dividends or not.

    1. I call this 'Lamela/Dembele syndrome'. The notion that it is perfectly reasonable to be expected to wait 2-3 years before a summer signing begins to justify their price tag. We are seeing a similar pattern now with Son, and next season there is every possibility it will repeat itself with Janssen and GKN (Sissoko doesn't qualify as a footballer). We have to disavow ourselves from this mentality. It's like we were so desperate for 'the Beatles' to justify how we'd pissed the Bale money up a wall that we were willing to indulge them for totally unreasonable lengths of time in order to save face. Am I glad that we hung on to Lamela and Dembele beyond their bang-average first 2 seasons? Yes, but by the same token this mentality should not be allowed to become the norm, or else we risk falling behind our rivals. Wanyama, Toby, Dier etc. showed that it is perfectly reasonable and perfectly normal to expect new signings to make an impact instantly. Even minnows at the foot of the table are able to pull this off, why should we be any different?

    2. I cannot disagree with the second statement more (sorry). Fannying about in the last few days of a window is a far more likely cause you to overspend than buying players early. The seller knows that you are desperate, your bank balance is basically public knowledge as all of your outgoings have left already, and you are very much positioned over the proverbial barrel. Again, there seems to be a mentality that arrived with VDV and refused to go away despite being completely illogical that deadline day brings plentiful top-notch bargains. It doesn't. It brings over-rated, over-priced bilge.

    To suggest that it is difficult to bring players in early ignores the fact that 4 of our most successful and most reasonably priced transfers were brought in exceptionally early on in the window. Jan, Toby, Dele and Victor would probably come top of most 'best value for money' lists in the PL. And even if there is some truth that an early signing requires a bit more cash, it is more sensible doing that than ending up with players arriving after the 3rd game of the season with no pre-season training and a fool's hope of settling.
     
    #189
  10. bigsmithy9

    bigsmithy9 Well-Known Member

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    Poor tactics or not.It was a real stinker.Ok it's out of our system and the also rans of Liverpool were made to look good. Heads up boys.Lets go......
     
    #190

  11. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    I always like to spin a positive note but it's a bit hard from that performance. I suppose it's slightly like the defeat away to WetSpam last season where we didn't seem to turn up at all for some reason - but it wasn't that match that ended up killing us, so there's still a good opportunity to get second anyway. The fundamentals haven't really changed and we can certainly compete with the best - that performance was the exception not the rule. Perhaps most importantly you could also argue that was possibly the hardest match we had left this season.
     
    #191
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  12. O.Spurcat

    O.Spurcat Well-Known Member

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    It may be out of your system smithy, but it's not out of mine.
     
    #192
  13. Dier Hard

    Dier Hard G'day mate!

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    Way too many below-par performances and too many mistakes but I can't just sit here and say Spurs lost because we were poor, we were beaten by a far superior side on the day. That's the first Prem game this season we've been thoroughly outplayed for 90 minutes, we were given one chance all game and in fairness Son should've buried it but a 2-1 scoreline would've been extremely harsh on Pool, who were brilliant.

    Davies was dreadful, he's a bloody good defender but his style of play in this type of match and with our tactics just showed that huge difference between our two full backs, Rose probably would've stopped Mane for his first.

    Dier was too sloppy in possession when he got caught out, I like how our CB's are good with the ball but there's a time and a place to take a few touches and there's a time and a place to just whack it up field, Dier should've done the latter.

    Wanyama had his worst game for us, offered zero protection to our back four, when at 2-0 down and showing no life at the beginning of the second half, I don't know why Poch didn't throw caution to the wind and take him off for a more attack minded player, we had nothing to lose (unless worrying about goal difference).

    Alli and Eriksen may well have not been on the pitch, offered no creativity. Kane was an isolated figure.

    Lloris our best player, made a couple of incredible saves.

    Hopefully this gives us a kick up the arse and a bit of a reality check, to be beaten so comprehensively as we were should mean there will be a real desire to put it right in our next league game and keep focused for the remainder of the season.

    One promising thing to leave it on is that we've faced all of the teams around us down to Stoke in 9th away from home. The record hasn't been great but we're still second so we're obviously doing things right. With a good few yet to come to The Lane, there's going to be some huge points to play for and at home I'll always fancy us.
     
    #193
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  14. Lovearsenalcock

    Lovearsenalcock Homeboy
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    Another thing I notice is the goals we concede against the big teams are down to our own meltdowns. The 2 against City(Lioris) the 2 against Pool(Dier/Wanyama then lots of petty clearance attempts). Conceded an equalizer against Chelsea bang on HT then one soon after restart(crucial psychological periods of the game). We are not on the ball when it comes to mental strength in situations where you need your wits and concentration about you...in all these games I can see our team mentally crumbling when the pressure is turned up a notch not physically but emotionally and mentally.

    Our first team is as good as anyone's on its day. I feel as though we still have a soft underbelly of sorts though.
     
    #194
  15. Citizen Kane

    Citizen Kane Danny Rosebud

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    In a way it's a sign of how far we've come under Poch though Dona. Like the very best tennis players rarely lose unless they drop an uncharacteristic number of unforced errors, rarely directly hurt by the actual quality of their opponent, we are also at a stage of progress where even the very best teams require us to make unforced errors in order to hurt us. This was highlighted by the City game, where despite being overrun by a very good side on their own patch, they still couldn't inflict any damage without a large dose of help from Hugo. It was also evident against Sunderland. We were more tepid than anything AVB ever served up that night, but due to the fact that we didn't make any unforced errors (nor did Sunderland probe for any), we came away with a point and a pretty comfotable - albeit disappointing - clean sheet.

    Gone are the days when Spurs would give 100% and still end up losing due to sheer superiority of the opposition. If we bring our A game, we win. It really is as simple as that nowadays. And other teams know it. What we lack is the consistency to sustain that 100% beyond a run of 5-6 games, as well as options to mix things up when it is obvious that we are well off form.
     
    #195
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  16. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    The loss of Rose and Verts makes us a bit like an F1 car with a left rear puncture. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the tyres are, we ain't gonna win.
     
    #196
  17. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    I liked that from him thought it was honest and a kick up the arse to the players.
    He may have got it wrong tactically today but then again you needed 3 points to truly challenges Chelsea. Regardless of the tactical set up your players didn't give the required effort and I think the manager was right to have a go at them.
     
    #197
  18. Sidney Fiddler

    Sidney Fiddler Well-Known Member

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    We don't have enough quality in depth
    to win the title . No matter what tatics , effort we will always come close but that level is either a miracle like Leicester ( that happens once a century ) or a Chav like dodgy sugar daddy .
    We have done remarkably well on a zero ish net spend try telling that to City/Chavs/Utd . Their managers would jump ship in an instance ( and half the plastics that follow them ) and most probably at best be pushing for Ropey cup places.
    The new stadium may help but Arse can't get near them with there better funding from their funeral of a stadium.
     
    #198
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  19. Spurf

    Spurf Thread Mover
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    This is probably right both players have put in very influential performances during their presence this season. The question I suppose is what happened to Wimmer, if the reports of him being unsettled by lack of games are true it would explain why MP has not included him. Last season he did well deputising for Verts, I suppose he thought he had done enough to be first pick, shame!
     
    #199
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  20. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    Tottenham playing another team (apart) from Liverpool, personally I love them to win because they are the closest to Chelsea. Liverpool needed to stop the
    rot which they did against a very good Tottenham side. I wish you luck for the rest of the season.
     
    #200

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