Off Topic Turkey vs Russia

All we need now is for Trump to become President and we'll be an ego away from WW3...

 

And had the jet stayed out of Turkish airspace there would not be a problem

 

Sure it will sort itself out I don't think anyone really wants an escalation

 

Wouldn't mind an escalation on a manager!

 

Should be fun if Russia and Turkey are in the same group in the Euros next summer...

 

I know Russia seem to be a nightmare at the moment but world leaders really need to sit round a table and start pushing things towards a better place. At the moment everything seems to be heading to a point of no return and the leaders seem to be making no effort to improve things

 

Turkey should have given the Russian bombers at least 10 warnings before shooting - be interesting to know whether these were given, and if so, why they were ignored

 

10 warnings? Is that accepted military protocol?

 

From what they showed on BBC news last night the area of Turkish airspace was very small almost like a peninsular jutting out into Syria, surely the Russian jets would have cleared the disputed area quickly given the speed they travel at........is it just that the Turkish pilots were trigger happy and wanted to be a bit macho, if so that's a bit scary......

I was under the impression that both Turkey and Russia were bombing isis strong holds in Syria...........

 

Yes, I believe that broadly it is protocol. This is from the Independent today:

"The Turkish army has reportedly released an audio recording of the moment its fighter pilots warned a Russian military jet before shooting it down over the Syrian border.

In the audio, played in Turkish media reports, a voice speaking in English can be heard issuing a warning to “change your heading south immediately”.

“This is Turkish air force speaking – en garde. You are approaching Turkish airspace,” it warns.

Turkey says this warning was repeated every 30 seconds for five minutes, but was ignored throughout by the Russian Su-24 bomber.

US military officials have supported Turkish claims that warnings were sent, and appeared to verify the recording issued on open channels in English.

But Russia has said that no warnings were received – and disputes Turkey’s claim that its airspace was violated."

 

Well, either the Turks or the Russians are lying aren't they? I don't have any evidence to decide which is, do you? Though the leadership of both countries is easily capable of lying without a second thought for propaganda purposes.

 

The Turks have put the audio out into the public domain, so the Russians will have to answer that. The Russians have been taking liberties with a number of countries air spaces, including our own, and relied on the fact that those countries would not be pedantic. But perhaps the Turks were looking for an excuse to hit back at the bombers that were killing their own kith and kin within Syria.

It's bloody frightening to think we could be drawn into a war with Russia through Nato, as a result of the Turks dispute with Russia over the Syrian rebels

 

Are you suggesting that we should withdraw from NATO as well as the EU? Or try to renegotiate our membership so we only fight when we want to? ( sorry Goldie, I'm being contrarian today, feel free to ignore me).

 

I'm sympathetic to your mood, Stan. I get those days too

As to Nato, I don't like the approach that we must support Nato members right or wrong. The Nato spokesman came out in support of Turkey yesterday, within hours of the downing of the plane. How about finding out the facts? Turkey may act rashly against Russia, knowing it has its big brothers behind it.

As to the EU, I'm content for Turkey to join, and the euro too, just so long as it's on the basis that it's taking our place...

 

The Russians are claiming that no radio messages were received, so I suppose a third explanation, however unlikely, is radio failure on the Russian jet (it does happen).

 

They need to start talking to each other, pronto, or this could get out of hand. To be fair to the Turks they have been abundantly clear that anybody in their airspace without permission would get shot at from well before the Russians joined the fray. I think this was aimed at the Russian armed Assad Air Force. **** me it's complicated, and we've all taken our eye off Daesh.

 

Indeed!!
The Russians have been playing "chicken" in a lot of Countries' air spaces, including ours. **** knows what would happen if we shot one down!!

You're right though, all this is a distraction from our common enemy. Everything is so bloody complicated!

 

Some idiot Tory on QT was suggesting that we must bomb Daesh in Syria because they are a threat to the safety of our streets. The opposite is true.