Off Topic Uber

Uber, that well-known four letter word amongst London's Black Taxi and Private Hire fraternity. A little background to their operation in London. They started in 2012 offering London PHV drivers a better deal than the vast majority of Licensed operators in the capital. Basically, their prices were towards the top-end of the scale but they only charged 20% commission. By comparison, many operators would charge a higher commission (50%+) on lower fares thereby making Uber a very attractive alternative to many drivers who were basically being ripped-off by their operators. It was basically a reeling-in operation.

During the following 18 months, as news of this 'great new deal for drivers' spread amongst the cabbing fraternity the number of drivers swelled as the service expanded. Earnings of £2-3,000 a week were not uncommon and it seemed nothing could stop the inexorable rise of the newcomer. Drivers had to have their own vehicle, late model Prius on the basic service or Mercedes E200 on the executive service. The basic cost of these were £250-£350 a week with insurance if hired.

Many drivers seeing the potential earnings splashed out buying their own or hiring on contracts. However, as with most things that seem to good to be true, it was. Once Uber had recruited to a level that covered the London area they fielded early complaints of their pricing, particularly 'surge pricing' where the price can double, treble or even higher according to demand, by cutting fares by 20%. Drivers having committed to vehicles were now seeing the other side of Uber, massive recruitment had diluted the work available, earnings began to fall as rapidly as they had risen. Uber then raised their commission charge to 25% further cutting earnings and recently on one of their services it will be 30%. It really does now appear to be a race to the bottom.

Customers should also be aware that Uber charge both distance and time, similar to the meter in a Black Taxi, and this is where the major opposition from the LTDA has come. By law, only Black Taxis may operate a 'Taximeter'. Uber argue their electronic app is not a 'Taximeter' and, at present, TfL, in their usual cack-handed fashion, have allowed them to operate. The LTDA then took out private prosecutions against a number of Uber drivers quoting the 'Taximeter' law. They agreed to suspend the prosecutions to enable TfL to seek a Judicial Review of Uber's use of a 'Taximeter' app. This is to be heard later this year. The current Black Taxi protests are mainly linked to problems with Uber who are now launching a publicity drive to try and counter the criticism.

As a driver for Addison Lee, I can see both sides of the argument. The problem with Uber is they have entered a regulated market and driven a coach and horses through the rules every other company have played by. For drivers working for smaller operators, this must have seemed like manna from heaven, for a while. Now many are stuck with expensive vehicles they own or hire on long-term contracts and are seeing their earnings crash and burn in a saturated market. Also, many have discovered that when there is a problem they are on their own. Customers are given full details of their driver but their drivers have very little detail of the customer. One recent incident saw an Uber driver pick up three 'ladies' from an upmarket bar, they were basically rat-arsed. One even put her stiletto-clad feet on the driver's headrest. When he'd had enough of their antics he pulled over and asked them to get out, to cut a long story short he was verbally, racially and physically abused. By time the police arrived they had gone but when the police requested the passenger details from Uber they refused to co-operate stating they would only respond to a court order, that's how much they value their drivers.

For those who use such services price is king and Uber's fare cuts have generated a lot of business but the professionalism of their drivers is questionable. Many are part-timers just trying to earn extra money often with little knowledge of London's roads and reliant on satnavs which are useless in Central London's tightly packed roads. Many take 'scenic' routes to bump up the 'distance and time' prices and many will use underhand methods to initiate surge pricing further ripping off customers. In the end you have to simply judge for yourself, it's the basic premise of 'you get what you pay for'...

 

Some seriously backward and frankly a bit racist posting on this thread.

I use Uber. It's expensive at peak times but still better than a black cab for getting from London back to Watford. Cost me £40 to get from Clapham to Watford at 3am on a Saturday night. How much would a black cab be for a 45 minute journey at that time?

Who gives a **** if the driver is from Croydon or Ethiopia, as my guy Saturday was? If you really don't want to be driven by an immigrant then enjoy your grossly inflated cab fare.

 

I also don't vote for the Labour Party

 

Yes please, very much so.

 

Thanks Sooper, I was hoping you would comment. As a consumer, and never having used the service in London, it looks like it varies wildly from place to place, country to country, even down to the business model.

Not sure how many black cab drivers know who they are picking up on the street. Uber clearly knows who I am, if it won't release the info when the law is involved that's bad form. I really don't see why black cabs should have a monopoly on the metering concept though.

Sounds like the people suffering most here are the Uber drivers, with the capital outlay and uncertain/dwindling income. They also seem the exact opposite to the blokes I meet in Indianapolis - they are all part timers, using their existing vehicles (I've travelled in a large range, the only thing they have in common is being very clean) working 3 or 4 hours a few days a week for a bit of extra cash, rather than for their main income. There must be enough of them to offer a decent service. They are also all Yanks, while the licensed cab drivers are all Somali, Ethiopian or Eritrean, for some reason. Doesn't bother me either way, except the regular cabs always make a song and dance over accepting a credit card, although the local laws oblige them to.

I'm afraid I very unfairly lack sympathy with black cab drivers for the grief they used to give for living in Teddington rather than Bromley when I caught one from Heathrow. Yep, I know sometimes they wait for hours for a fare and have to join the back of the queue when they get back, bad luck. On the other hand, the bloke who runs a PHV firm local to me now has been a complete hero on several occasions and has become a good mate. He also undercharges me insanely because I buy him a pint occasionally.

 

From my local perspective:-

Common Council Puts The Brakes On Uber
Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2015 14:18 PM

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Common Council voting 5-4 against the proposed ridesharing bylaw introduced by Councillor Greg Norton.

Norton says there's a lot of misconception about Uber, which is an app that connects users to rides.

He says a lot of people think Uber only works in larger cities, but he says the majority of Uber drivers are located in cities the size of Saint John or smaller.

Councillor Shirley McAlary says with the taxi bylaw that was just put together, she questions the timing of the new bylaw.

Norton says it would be one way the city could send the message that we are open for business.

According to a Nanos poll, 3/4 people support Uber in Toronto.

- See more at: http://www.country94.ca/news/1409211678/common-council-puts-brakes-uber#sthash.ETUOfphc.dpuf

Greg Norton seeks Uber bylaw in Saint John
Saint John councillor wants city staff to draft a bylaw that would pave the way for ride-sharing programs
By Connell Smith, CBC News Posted: Sep 25, 2015 11:39 AM AT Last Updated: Sep 25, 2015 11:47 AM AT

• Edmonton and Toronto mayors to work together on Uber policy
• Ottawa's response to Uber compared to cities across Canada
• Poll finds Toronto residents support Uber, but think taxis are safer

A Saint John councillor wants to change city bylaws to allow ride-sharing companies, such as Uber, to set up in the city.

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Saint John Coun. Greg Norton said the city needs to prepare a bylaw that would allow for ride-sharing app Uber to set up in the municipality. (CBC)

Coun. Greg Norton has put a motion on Monday's council agenda that would lead to creation of a ride-sharing bylaw.

Norton said it is inevitable that services, such as Uber, will come to the city and, without a proper bylaw in place, the two industries would be on a "collision course."

Norton said one of his roles as a city councillor is to welcome new industries and "signal the message that we are progressive ... we welcome new ways of creating employment, new ways of delivering transportation to our citizens and new options."

Norton's motion, if approved, would direct the city manager to draft a ride-sharing bylaw that "ensures the protection of the public, while recognizing the inherent differences between ride-sharing and the traditional taxi and limousine industries."

The move is being greeted with skepticism by long-time taxi industry leaders, such as Paul Ram, who owns 11 cabs.

Ram said many Saint John taxi drivers are just getting by.

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Paul Ram, who owns 11 cabs in Saint John, said Uber would create a "big uproar" in Saint John among taxi drivers. (Connell Smith/CBC)

"I think it will create [a] big uproar," said Ram.

"They sometimes go home with pittance. So it is already hard to survive and it will be harder if another outfit comes here."

The councillor's proposal is coming on the heels of another major shift in the city's taxi industry.

After years of wrangling and extensive negotiations with taxi companies and drivers Saint John council passed a new taxi bylaw in June.

The new bylaw overhauled the industry and makes it difficult, if not impossible, for ride-sharing programs to set up.

The bylaw, which goes into effect next May, defines a vehicle "being used to transport a person for remuneration" as a taxi and goes on to list a series of requirements for both the vehicle and the driver.

Among those conditions are the use of a "registered, calibrated and sealed" taxicab meter.

Norton voted in favour of the bylaw but says a "parallel" bylaw can allow the two industries to coexist.

Uber's arrival sparks controversy

The arrival of Uber has caused councils in other cities across North America to scramble to come up with laws that govern the industry.

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Armin Ahmadi, who drives cab for Saint John Taxi, said he does not think that Uber drivers could make any money working in Saint John because of the low fares. (Connell Smith/CBC)

Edmonton and Toronto city councils, for instance, are both considering regulations that would legalize the use of the ride-sharing app, and both are facing resistance from the taxi industry in their cities.

The loss of business to the app has also prompted protests in cities where Uber is operating.

It is unclear how profitable the program would be in Saint John.

Armin Ahmadi, who drives cab for Saint John Taxi, said he doubts Uber drivers could compete with low taxi rates in the city.

"It's a small town," said Ahmadi.

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The arrival of Uber in other cities has proved controversial with existing taxi drivers and politicians. (Ryan Remiorz/Canadian Press)

"From west side to east it only takes a few bucks."

But Uber already has some fans in Saint John, who would like to see it move to the city.

Majid Bamohrez used the ride-share service a couple of times recently while in Toronto.

He said he is happy with the result and says the drivers were friendly.

"You just pay for it through the phone," said Bamohrez.

"You don't even have to pay cash or anything so, it's that simple. And it's very easy."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/greg-norton-uber-bylaw-saint-john-1.3243479

 

Agreed. I live in Birmingham and the service provided is a vast improvement on any other cab service up here.

You rate the driver-so he is keen to please-and he rates you-so you have to behave!

Acknowledging it could be run very differently elsewhere, I can only say that Bham works really well.

 

When I lived in Birmingham there was a thriving unlicensed minicab trade.

 

Now now tdubya....this ain't fantasy island you know,!

 

Here in Oz, my good lady had to fly to Sydney recently and got a 'Uber' ride to and from the airport.
The driver was a senior gentleman who my wife knows ( lives just up the road from us ) ................ anyway, instead of about $80 per trip, Mrs Aussie paid $50 cash each way. As mentioned, she knew the driver well so the fear factor wasn't an issue.

 

If she paid cash that can't have been a real Uber ride mate. That's the whole point of it. Also you can't book in advance. Must be some local alternative. You will always know more about your driver with Uber than from a minicab or regular cab, because his/her name, car and licence number are sent to you and saved on the app. Won't stop them attacking you if they want to, but you will be able to track them down later.

 

Some years ago, I needed a taxi to catch an early flight from Heathrow. I rang Black Cabs Central and asked to book one for 4.30am. I was told I didn't need to book, just ring to get one. Early next morning, running a bit late, I call them and am told - can't help, there were no black cabs available at that hour.

In panic I grab the yellow pages, and call a mini-cab shop in Balham. Get a broad West Indian voice answering, I say I need something immediately - No problem. I had a pair of skis to be accommodated - no problem. Five minutes later, this delightful bloke in a tiny Datsun turns up, we speed up to Heathrow with the skis sticking out of one window, and relieved, I give the guy a huge tip.

I've never booked a black cab since. They took the public for granted - hence all the competition they now face.

 

Interesting thread that I just had to respond to.

As a Dublin taxi driver, Uber is used here but not very much. To become a Uber driver here, you have to have a Small Public Service Vehicle (SPSV) Licence. Under no circumstances would we allow un-vetted, un-licenced drivers to operate on the streets of this town. We would bring the whole city to a stand still if that ever happened. The French taxi drivers are right not to allow Uber to operate in the way they do in other places.

To the people in favour of using Uber, I have a question. Would you allow your teenage daughter to be driven home (with or without alcohol taken) by an un-vetted, un-licenced driver who could have any sort of criminal record? If the answer is yes and the possibility of saving a few $$$$$$ is more important to you than safety, by all means use Uber.

I am a Hailo driver here and I must say it is extremely good for the consumer and the driver. I would estimate at least 40% of my business is from Hailo. The drivers details are forwarded to the customer when the driver accepts the job on the app. They only allow fully licenced, fully insured drivers to become Hailo drivers. The customer can pay be card even if they don't have the card in their possession. If you are a parent, you can hail a taxi for your daughter/son knowing they will get home safely and if they have run out of money, you can pay with the card on your account. You can also book in advance and have peace of mind especially with early morning Airport jobs. It is a much better and safer system than using a Uber taxi who may or may not be a danger to your safety.

 

Heartfelt stuff Finglas.

Don't appreciate the scaremongering though, John Warboys the serial rapist was a black cab driver. There's plenty of stuff out there about safety and Uber, mainly on sites sponsored by normal taxi associations. Much more difficult to get stuff on 'black cab' safety.

As I noted above, the competition has worked, Hailo is the result of Uber. Uber may be a horrible organisation (I don't know) but it has challenged a cartel and helped improve services for the consumer. In my view the cartels protesting are scared of competition, not primarily concerned with passenger safety, that's just a useful publicity argument.

If the playing field is level - i.e all drivers have to have criminal records check, and relevant licences and insurance I assume that no one would have a problem with Uber. Then people can choose according to convenience, price, or whether, in London, having a driver with 'the knowledge' is worth a premium.

 

Inasmuch as I love black cabs I am a regular taxi user and find Uber an extremely good service.

 

Having said that I will give Hailo a try

 

Bus it!

 

Hailo, like Uber, 'not available in your area' for me. Still, might be handy for trips.