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What will make you happy?

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by afcftw, May 12, 2017.

  1. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Whilst Wenger is responsible for buying the players, what you mention above is surely down to the players, rather than Wenger. If Wenger has managed 3 title winning teams, then he clearly has the ability as a leader. I'm not saying he's faultless for the current crop, but there's only so much he can do. When those 11 players go out on the pitch, it's up to them to show they've got fight and bottle.
     
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  2. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    Are you sure you aren't Ty?

    Wenger has opted to buy small technicians with no heart for the past 12 years. Out of all the players he has ever bought, has their been a real leader? The closest to a leader he has bought is Mertesacker (also known as the big FRIENDLY giant, who the **** gets a name like that XD) and Koscielny (and even then he's not the best leader)... Everyone else is merely schoolboy-esque and when the chips are down are not there to lead the team.
     
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  3. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Mertesacker got the name because he's ****ing big, that's all. And other players include Koscielnly, Monreal, Xhaka, Coquelin, Sanchez and Giroud who are all grafters. Yes Wenger needs to take some responsibility because he buys the players, but he can only set them up and give them instructions. When they go out on the pitch it's up to them to perform.
     
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  4. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    Yes but if you know the player doesn't really have the fight in them, whos fault is that? It's not as if with Diaby, Wilshere, Ramsay, Ox, Walcott, Rosicky, Gibbs who he had worked for many years showed that 1. they had balls, 2. were not injury prone (although more scary is why they suddenly get injured at arsenal).

    secondly, the players he brings in you get to see what they are like in their existing team. Out of all the players signed recently, Sanchez is really the only 1 who has fight.

    Most of the other players have either no fight (for whatever reason) or were too young and not been instilled with fight. If Chelsea were to go out and buy Ozil for his leadership qualities, you would call me batshit crazy as theres a body of work there of the player.

    There's no surprise that Arsenal have done the same thing year after year and for me theres 1 common denominator amongst that. To not have a proper title challenge in 12 years for a team of your size is a story that tells itself.

    As much as i respect what Arsenes done and he seems like a nice guy (minus his whinging, sore loser?) and doesn't throw massive hissy fits, the man is a dinosaur and past it
     
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  5. BobbyD

    BobbyD President

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    Just to add, you can blame the players all you want but the fact of the matter is, if the players are not doing it for the manager then you either replace the players (which you have for 12 years) or you replace the man at the top. Now as honourable as it is that you are showing loyalty, 12 years is a very long time to be loyal. Abramovic might be cut throat but sometimes he stumbles upon a gem (jose first now conte).
     
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  6. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    Just to be clear, I think Wenger should be replaced. I just think we should do it when we've got somebody of top quality lined up, not on the back of fan protest. So whilst he'll always be a legend for Arsenal for what he's achieved, his time as a top manager is done. As for buying players, I doubt he deliberately goes out and buys players with no fight, but his his teams have lacked leaders over the last decade. Although with Sanchez, Xhaka, Koscielny I think he's tried to address that to a degree.
     
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  7. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    Of course he's responsible, he is the manager and he buys the players he wants for the system of play he elects to play. You can also tell if a player is mentally tough by looking at his body of work, which comes in form of Intel reports from your scouting network. But he was the one that chose to change the makeup of our team into a Barca clone, unfortunately Barca has the players and we had cheap knock offs . He also stubbornly chose to stick by it when it clearly didn't work for the PL.

    He did try and address it but boy did it took him ages and he's still not got it right.
     
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  8. TheBear

    TheBear Well-Known Member

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    No Wenger is also responsible for motivating, rallying, inspiring the players even. He's just not any good at it. (Something Alex Ferguson was fantastic at.) When the pressure is on if anything I think he makes things worse - the guy has a nervous disposition.

    Our title winning sides were full of 'alpha male' types who didn't need external motivation.
     
    #48
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  9. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    I'm like everyone else, the FA cups were nice, but now I'd like a PL or a Champions League title.

    Having said that, I think we have as much chance of getting them with Wenger as with someone new. But I'll admit that I haven't much idea how we can win either of those, even if I think that most people commenting haven't a good idea either. Certainly Wenger knows what has to be done to win, more than any of us.

    I still think there is a lot of luck involved.
     
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  10. lazarus20000

    lazarus20000 Well-Known Member

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    There is an element of luck involved but when you have a team that is solid from the back and then throughout, you have a good chance of winning. There is no disputing that both Chelsea and Spurs have been the best teams in the PL and it was ultimately Chelsea's extra quality that got them winning the PL, but Spurs were't far off. We weren't in the PL because we had a collapse around late Jan all the way to early March. This is not about luck, its about our ability to maintain consistency under pressure. We might have the quality to go up against most teams in the PL, but it's these dips that have prevented us from winning the PL for 12 years. This wasn't the case prior to 2005 when we had the players to maintain a title challenge. They had the mental strength to battle through a whole season.
     
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  11. ToledoTrumpton

    ToledoTrumpton Well-Known Member

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    I am actually relatively happy. If Arsenal win a trophy mostly every year, even if it is an FA cup, I am pretty happy. Given how many supporters never get to see their club win a trophy, I think complaining about not winning the right trophies is just a bit classless.

    And I still feel like we are on the way up. This team is far better than our circa 2008 team and our circa 2012 team.
     
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  12. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

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    How do people feel now?

    We had a pretty average/poor season and a lot of questions were raised but there was a definite improvement at the end.

    We've won the FA Cup (yeah baby) and we won 9 from 10 games upon switching formation. We played as well in the final as I've seen us in years and beaten good teams in City, United and Chelsea. We also overcame the Maureen and Koeman hoodoos!

    I see reason for optimism. If we stick with this formation and can keep this hunger and belief then there's no reason the team can't challenge. The big ask though is if we keep Alexis and Özil as they're the sort of players you build a team around. I also think we need to add 2-3 new players (Quick striker/LB/DM). Do all that and I think we'll be able to challenge everyone and consistently.
     
    #52
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  13. PINKIE

    PINKIE Wurzel Gummidge

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    In some respects it's a shame the season ended when it did, because we were on a roll. Winning 9 out of 10 is title winning form. I just pray that we can keep Sanchez and ozil and carry this form into next season.
     
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  14. afcftw

    afcftw Well-Known Member

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    It's disappointing we didn't make CL as I love CL games but 75 points would often have been enough to get top 4. We do need to do better in the league and not have a period of collapse like we always seem to.

    Winning the FA cup again though was great. And we beat city and Chelsea to do it.

    We've come short in the league in recent years but winning 3 of 4 FA Cups (and despite it being a minor trophy beating both city and Chelsea in the community shield following our cup successes) is a good return of silverware. After years of not winning anything it's been brilliant to get back to consistently winning trophies.

    A lot needs to change for next season but I'm not as doom and gloom as some others. I'm fairly happy.
     
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  15. PeterRICK

    PeterRICK Well-Known Member

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    The caveat is that we always tend to finish a season well, it's the lapse around New Year which is what hamstrings us every time. In fact, I saw some ridiculous stat about the amount of times we've lost in May over the last few years. Can't find it now but it was stupidly good.

    I'm hoping (the stupid optimistic tw*t that I am) that the new formation might be the springboard we need. I feel it suits our style of players (barring Theo and OG) far more than our long out-dated "system" we used since 1852. We look far more solid at the back and Xhaka and Ramsey are building a good understanding and seem more comfortable in their role.
     
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