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Youth set-up & all things Argyle

Discussion in 'Plymouth' started by WestCountrylalala, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    My son has just passed 5 weeks of trials in order to get into the Torquay (apologies for swearing) Advanced Developement Centre, he was scouted during one of his league matches. I have learned a little about youth developement in football these past 5 weeks but I have also become (more) disalusioned with the Argyle set-up.

    It would seem then when Argyle do their scouting (I have never seen them) they take their young player(s) away from his team - a team they have become comfortable with, who's players they have come to know and stick them in the whole new set-up - some of these youngsters are not confident. They then might keep that player for a year, maybe two and then when they reach 17 perhaps, they decide that player isn't for them for whatever reason and then dump them. Now anyone who knows anything about youth football will know that after under16's not many clubs go on to coach U17's/U18's. That player then has the task of trying to find a team. I don't consider this ideal. Torquay run their youth set-up alongside the player's local team, they consider it extra training/fitness. They only take that player away when they decide to sign him up for the Torquay Utd. youth team - that is after they have come through both of the developement phases. I think this is a better idea and forward thinking.

    I always get the impression that Argyle are trailing everyone else mostly in regards to anything to do with Jo public. I have emailed them in the past (pre admin) regarding their "Jags" youth discount scheme - I never had replies, to this day as far as I know it is still going as I have never been told otherwise! I again emailed them about a week ago regarding possible work experience for my son, surprise surprise - no response. Seriously Argyle need to get their act together when dealing with off the field issues because they are sadly trailing everyone else.
     
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  2. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Congratulations to your son Mrs LaLa........does this mean you will not be able to walk around Plymouth until after it's dark or that you will have to wear a disguise.

    How will you keep Beau from singing United songs.
     
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  3. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Good on the lad and I know from working with an ex Argyle Coach (youth) that to even get that far is something to be chuffed about. I worked with Mike Hill if anyone remembers him. We used to have lunchtime chats about youngsters and football and he was quite dismissive of a lot of parents. They all thought they knew their son was going to be the next Bobby Charlton and couldn't take any criticism from the coaching staff. His words not mine but having taken my own son to games and listened to mums and dads on the touchline I sort of know what he means. He used to say that a lot of youngsters lacked the dedication to make it all the way and that it was one of the most wasteful occupations anywhere. By this he meant that more kids don't make it in the game than do.
    Argyle probably aren't that much different than most other clubs. I think one of the best teams in the country for youth development are Crewe. Grady used to churn out players by the bucket load. Why clubs don't go there and look at what they have been doing for years I just don't get.

    I wish him well Mrs lalala. There are worse things than living in and coming from Plymouth and playing eventually for Torquay. He won't be the first to slip the Argyle net and I doubt he will be the last.
     
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  4. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Referees have more trouble from parents than their offsprings..........getting foul abuse from the touchline and even breaking up parent fights at times.....has Gat seen it all before or are they more civilized in Gats circle.
     
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  5. Plymjools

    Plymjools Active Member
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    You are not wrong there Plymborn, adults are definately the worst ...... it also depends on the team you are playing ..... if they thought that they were going to win and didn't many a time they will put in a report accusing the team and parents of all sorts ..... I remember one of our teams winning against a better team and one of the players was getting hacked down at every opportunity, his father said something along the lines of ..... ignore the idiot .... at the end of the match one of their drunken parents was threatening to punch this parent for calling his son an idiot, using the F word every second word .......... eventually it was calmed down by the opposition supporters dragging him away .... the next thing we got a charge from county for all sorts, you then have to take the time to answer the charge and the annoying thing is you never get to know the outcome .... having said that one of our U15's players was fined £10 for saying to the referee ... you should have gone to Specsavers lol. It should be about kids enjoying their football but once parents and coaches become involved it becomes a whole lot more !
     
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  6. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    .........and what about girls football......no thank you......I'm too old to want to know.
     
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  7. Plymjools

    Plymjools Active Member
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    Sadly girls football is on the wane .... I think it was last week that the FA said that they were going to put funds in place to promote it .... the truth is not many girls want to play competetive football !
     
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  8. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    Sensible, I know what you mean regarding parents and coaches, I have witnessed too many incidents to mention here but coaches telling their little U10 yr olds to break an opponants legs beats the lot IMO.

    I have NEVER had a problem with Torquay (Exeter are a different story) nor has my son. I even had a little banter with the head guy regarding my Argyle jacket I insisted on wearing to the trials, sadly I think I might get thrown out if I insisted on wearing it now he is in the Developement stage so will chose a different one (but the Argyle one is so warm <laugh>) but my son's ambitions haven't changed since he first kicked a football. Long way to go yet and a lot of hard work so no way do I consider him a "Bobby Charlton" <laugh> but the worst that can happen is he should become a better player now be receiving top class coaching - levels 3 & 4.

    Anyway does anyone agree with me regarding Argyle's lack of comms with Joe public?
     
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  9. Plymborn

    Plymborn Well-Known Member
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    Mrs LaLa.......I am of course not familiar with what PAFC are doing from where I live.

    At the risk of boring you all again.....regarding Charlton (sorry) they seem to be on the ball regarding filling their stadium......as I said last week I had a Family boys trip last week at £5 ahead to Charlton,got an extra 8000 + (27000 crowd) to visit that day......hundreds of extra kids along....who might get the bug to go again. They also coach in fans from all over Kent with their Red Bus operation, you can find dozens of Red Buses parked up near the ground as you walk to the Stadium......I mentioned this last year and BRB commented on how they where having problems with Charlton picking up in Gillingham.

    With my son now 42 I'm not so aware about young players being catered for........although when down the High St (Orpington)....I have noticed groups of teenagers getting off buses wearing Charlton track suits and lugging around big Charlton holdalls as if they where returning from a training session somewhere.

    You can imagine the competion around here for teenagers.....within one hour you can get to most London Premieship Clubs,and Championship, Div 1 and Div 2 Clubs and some Conference Premier and South clubs as well, also Gillingham are less than 45mins by train.
     
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  10. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    Good morning Plym, did you enjoy your extra hour in bed? <whistle>

    Sounds like Charlton are on the ball (<laugh>) where filling up the ground is concerned - another area where Argyle are sadly lacking. How many times has it been pointed out here and elsewhere that getting the kids in cheaply is a great way of introducing the local club to the impressionable? Once in the ground the kids then spend their money on food and in the club shop and it has a positive affect on the pitch too! It's a win/win situation. Argyle do not listen or communicate with the fans and as far as I'm aware they never have done. It often frustrates me that "they" are their own worst enemies <doh> "no ambition" springs to mind. I thought this might change under Brent, sadly it hasn't.
     
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  11. mexijan

    mexijan Active Member

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    Gz boss that is one hell of an achievemnt for your lad. When I was coaching an ex Arglye player, coaching for Elm Utd I think I will not name the person, used that exact expression at half time to his kids to try to stop the boy who was playing right wing for my team. One of our parents, not actually the parent of the player, ended up in a fight with this person over it and got banded from watching his son from playing for 6 months!!! As for the Argyle approach in regards to taking the lad away from the team sorry but I agree 100% with that. The DJM, not sure where ur boy is playing, has more teams than badged coaches and whilst the parents or volunteers do a great job for the average player they should not be coaching talented kids. Look to Holland or Spain they take kids from about 5 year old and produce some of the best technical players going, ask Man City watched that game yesterday and some of the skill from the Ajax youngsters was a joy, and that only comes with top coaches. For me Argyle centre of excellences and youth set up is better than it ever has been and I hope we keep investing there.
    On a side note it was amusing to watch a right back nutmeg a player, then cut back inside another and get applauded for then playing it back to his keeper in England that would be seen as negative play by many!!!
     
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  12. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    Thanks everyone for the kind comments.

    @mexi, I didn't realise you were a coach for Elm - that is also quite an acheivment! As for your comment regarding taking a player from his team, I think this works best for my lad as he is naturally shy and quiet with new people although he is getting better with this. I accept this may not be the best course for all players but I'm happy it is this way for him, he will still get that excellent coaching you speak of but playing more often can only be a good thing IMO and apparently in Torquay's opinion too.

    Comments regarding parents, I have to agree with some of that, there is one "pushy" parent that immediately springs to mind, my lad does need a bit of encouragement (call it pushing if you will) but I'm fully aware there is a lot he needs to work on and is still a long way from any sort of finished product. I don't think I need anyone to tell me what his weaknesses are (though I'm sure they will in due course <laugh>) as I can name them in seconds - he knows them too and is already working on them.

    It's nice to have you lot to to exchange ideas and opinions with so thanks everyone for your input.
     
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  13. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Elms have a problem I believe Mrs lalala but you can erradicate it by sending it abroad apparently. Isn't that right MEXijan. My son was not the greatest footballer in the world and had no illusions he was ever going to make it into the bigtime. Not that he didn't wished he could and that is the same for thousands of us. He used to go on to me about this kid or that kid being better than him. One in particular was always pushed by his dad and his dad would tell the world how great his son was and was going to be. I told my lad that I'd bet him every penny I ever earned he would never play professional football and although he was ok he was not going to make it. His dad got him a trial with Argyle and lo and behold they told him he wasn't what they were looking for. Dad kicked off big time and told them they didn't know what they were talking about. Guess what. He never got anywhere and the reason was he simply wasn't as good as his dad hoped he was. That boy grew up to be a mess. I never pushed any of my kids because I never thought it right to do it. They achieved in their own way and dad's need to learn that they cannot live their dreams through their kids. It just isn't fair or right to put that on them. If my lad had been good enough and wanted to have a go then I would have backed him to the hilt by making it financially posible. That would have been my role and no more.
     
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  14. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    The Premier League in all its modesty & generosity has recently granted from its own munificence a new deal on junior players to its grateful subjects in the lower leagues, despite the fact that all the 72 peasant teams opposed it except Derby County.

    Basically, the Premier League clubs will give the assembled lower league clubs an extra £25 per year [for the avoidance of doubt, £25 in total, not each] in return for which the PL clubs can take any youth player from anywhere without compensation, unless the donating club runs a youth training scheme meeting a specified Tier 1 standard. That Tier 1 standard is defined so that only the Premier League clubs can afford to run one in the first place. A cunning scheme, no?

    I exaggerate slightly on the detail but the gist is correct.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan

    I think Argyle have opted to run a Tier 3 scheme, the next to lowest level. This sounds disappointing but in fact, there won't be many teams in League 2 doing that and probably quite a few in League 1 that aren't either.

    I'm not sure if this has any bearing and clearly Argyle should ALSO be maintaining good relations with local clubs & schools. However, I suspect Argyle are running quite a risk in incurring the costs of running such a scheme. Possibly Torquay have opted for a less ambitious approach based on supporting a larger number of unaffiliated players through local amateur clubs.
     
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  15. Plymjools

    Plymjools Active Member
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    Hiya Notdistant Argyle are out and about in many local schools and they also run a Development Centre similar to Torquay's as one of our U15's has been on Argyle's books for years but still gets to play in the DJM with his mates !
     
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  16. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    @ Not Distant, who knows? You could be right.
    @ GAT, if Argyle are doing things in a similar way then good for them but it's not my understanding. I don't think they will be doing much talent spotting in schools, it's more likely to be a PR thing ie. giving out free tickets or other freebies. The only place I have ever seen Argyle scouting was on a cup final day several years ago now - they left early.
     
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  17. Plymjools

    Plymjools Active Member
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    LaLa they are in loads of local schools running coaching sessions, and as I said they have a development set up like Torquay where they can still play in the DJM its only when they get signed up that they can only play for Argyle ..... My son and 2 mates went to Reading on a trip organised by Argyle and they had a training session up there ..... the Reading coach asked the names of the three lads and because of that Argyle came to watch them ..... all 3 had a shocking game ..... that put a stop to the .... who shall I sign for Argyle or Reading lol
     
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  18. WestCountrylalala

    WestCountrylalala Active Member
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    There was an interesting read in yesterday's Herald which I only got around to reading quite late last night, funny enough it was regarding Argyle's promising youth currently being head hunted by premiership coaches. I was pleasantly surprised that Argyle seem to have aquired some promising and talented players since Brent came onboard. <ok>
     
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