1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

?

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    110,223
    Likes Received:
    214,695
    Andy Stewart‏@BrexitDoncNorth 4h4 hours ago
    Follow Follow @BrexitDoncNorth
    So how bad can it get in Doncaster? Tonight they attempted to ram my colleague off the road. Car spun, trailer smashed, driver in hospital. How bad? #Election2019 #Doncaster #BrexitParty #LabourParty
    please log in to view this image
     
    #44381
    Uber_Hoop likes this.
  2. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    110,223
    Likes Received:
    214,695
    Why no one is celebrating 10 years of the Lisbon Treaty
    The Lisbon debacle reminds us of how fundamentally anti-democratic the EU is.
    please log in to view this image

    please log in to view this image

    Fraser Myers
    Staff writer

    4th December 2019
    please log in to view this image

    The EU marked a significant anniversary on Sunday. But apart from a small private ceremony of EU officials – coinciding with the official coronation of Ursula von der Leyen and her new team of commissioners – few people noticed, let alone celebrated. There were no street parties or champagne corks popped. There was barely even any press coverage.
    This was the 10-year anniversary of the Lisbon Treaty – the treaty that gave force to the EU as it exists today. You might think this would be an occasion for misty-eyed, flag-waving Remoaners to commemorate. But the circumstances that led to Lisbon are an embarrassment to Europhiles – or certainly should be. The period that led to Lisbon is a clear and unavoidable reminder of the EU’s fundamentally anti-democratic nature.
    The Lisbon Treaty began life as the European Constitution. It set out to consolidate Brussels’ power. Among many things, it would establish a permanent EU Council presidency and a ‘legal personality’ for the EU. It would also confer more powers to the EU on foreign policy. Ten member-state governments announced that they would hold referendums to ratify the constitution. In the end, only four were held. In 2005, the constitution was decisively rejected in France by 55 per cent of voters and then in the Netherlands by 62 per cent of voters.
    That ought to have been the end of the road for the constitution. The public of one of the EU’s major powers had called a halt to further EU integration. But even before France held its referendum, the consequences of a No vote were made clear. Jean-Claude Juncker – currently the outgoing head of the EU Commission, but head of the EU Council at the time – made clear to voters that their views were irrelevant to the EU: ‘If it’s a Yes, we will say “on we go”, and if it’s a No we will say “we continue”.’ After the French result came in, Juncker pretended that the outcome was somehow unclear: ‘I am still very much in doubt when I look at this very mixed response in France.’
    Instead of parking the planned changes, the European Council decided to have a two-year ‘period of reflection’. In those two years, it set about repackaging the rejected constitution as the Lisbon Treaty.


    Few even tried to hide the ruse. German chancellor Angela Merkel said in a speech to the European Parliament: ‘The substance of the constitution is preserved. That is a fact.’ Former French president Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, who was president of the committee drafting the constitution, concurred with this assessment: ‘The proposals in the original constitutional treaty are practically unchanged. They have simply been dispersed through old treaties in the form of amendments.’
    There were, however, some subtle changes which, importantly for the EU elites, could ‘head off any threat of referenda by avoiding any form of constitutional vocabulary’, wrote Giscard d’Estaing. Marvelling at the new text, he noted how ‘the Brussels institutions have also cleverly reclaimed the process from the – to them – unwelcome intrusion of parliamentarians and politicians… The [EU] institutions have re-imposed their language and their procedures – taking us even further away from ordinary citizens.’
    In the UK, the Labour government had promised a referendum on the EU Constitution in its 2005 manifesto. A planned vote was cancelled after the French and Dutch ‘No’ votes. When the Lisbon Treaty came around, the government refused to allow the public a say on it, even though it was undeniably the same as the constitution. Gordon Brown was clearly embarrassed by the debacle. He first sent his foreign secretary, David Miliband, to sign it in his place so that he wouldn’t be photographed signing it with the 26 other European leaders. He eventually turned up three hours later to sign it.
    Ireland was the only member state to hold a referendum on the treaty – and only then because its constitution obliges it to. Seven years earlier in 2001, Ireland held a vote on the EU’s Nice Treaty. The public rejected it by 53 per cent, and a year later the referendum was held a second time. In 2008, the Irish rejected the Lisbon Treaty. When the inevitable second referendum came around a year later, an obscure left-wing British backbencher went to Ireland to campaign against the treaty. Jeremy Corbyn warned that the EU was creating a ‘European empire’ and a ‘military Frankenstein’. Corbyn joked that No campaigners should not ‘scrap your posters because you’re gonna need them for a third referendum’. Now, of course, Corbyn’s Labour and its Europhile activists are campaigning to overturn the vote for Brexit with a second referendum.

    France, Ireland and the Netherlands had rejected EU integration but it was to happen anyway. It is also worth remembering that they rejected the EU when it was enjoying relatively good times. In recent years the EU has faced multiple major crises of its own making, from Brexit and the rise of populism to the Euro crisis and the migrant crisis. But the people of Europe were saying ‘No’ to the EU in vast numbers even before any of this.
    The only positive of the Lisbon Treaty is a clause of around 260 words that was never intended to be used: Article 50, which for the first time established the right of EU member states to leave. Now that really will be worth celebrating – if it’s ever allowed to happen.
     
    #44382
  3. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    17,857
    Likes Received:
    26,932
    No, he’d rather sit at home shooting himself in the foot.
     
    #44383
    kiwiqpr likes this.
  4. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    What about both having that right? It may be a hugely inconvenient truth for those who conveniently confuse anti zionism with anti semitism but if the variuos arab states, all muslim, had not been hell bent on destroying Israel for the last 70 years there wouldn't still be a problem in the middle east.
     
    #44384
  5. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Desperate days for Corbyn. He is now has a confidential document showing there will be customs checks between Ireland and Britain after Brexit.
    The Kremlin can confirm this. :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
    #44385
  6. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    10,777
    Likes Received:
    10,271
    Corbyn planning to rig a second referendum in favour of Remain by allowing 2 million EU citizens who do not have British Nationality to vote in it.

    It's impossible to overstate the enduring bad faith that would engender if this tipped a second referendum in favour of Remain. Being forced to remain in the EU by EU citizens who may or may not remain in the UK

    I hope this dishonest policy loses Corbyn a lot of votes in the formerly Labour, pro Leave Northern areas
     
    #44386
  7. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    21,429
    Likes Received:
    6,472
    If the Zionist state had not been placed smack in the middle of those Arab lands by powerful Western states when the Arabs had no power, there wouldn't be a problem in the middle east.
     
    #44387
  8. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    It won't happen mate. Corbyn will lose the election because he is unelectable and we will leave the EU.... which by the way is falling to bits day by day.
    The good thing with a Tory majority is they can overturn all those treacherous bills from Benn/Letwin/Cooper and get no del back on the table. We needed that for a good deal. They can also get rid of that court. :)
     
    #44388
    Goldhawk-Road likes this.
  9. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Funnily Bojo has just answered a question re EU and said "We will be coming out full and entirely". He has never used that kind of language before.
     
    #44389
  10. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    21,429
    Likes Received:
    6,472
    I hope the dishonest, fraudulently won previous Referendum is replaced by another where 60% of the vote is required to enforce a change from the present long standing, efficient and beneficial arrangement. Additionally that all UK citizens currently disenfranchised for not actually living in the UK but still impacted by Brexit, are given a vote, plus all people of age 16 and over. I would add that anyone who previously voted Leave be required to undertake a test to confirm they are of sound mind before being allowed to vote ever again.
     
    #44390

  11. Goldhawk-Road

    Goldhawk-Road Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    10,777
    Likes Received:
    10,271
    Yes, that's pretty much Corbyn's policy which is why he won't be Labour leader next year
     
    #44391
  12. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    #44392
  13. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Thank god SKY just cut Corbyn off during his speech! Soooooo boring. zzzzzzz.
    Seriously, he is so crap at public speaking. He is not a statesman and comes across as 'out of his depth'.
    Boris might talk a load of old crap but he has charisma, funny and has a charm about him and that you want to listen to him... then you have Steptoe? <doh>
     
    #44393
  14. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    #44394
    GoldhawkRoad likes this.
  15. QPR Oslo

    QPR Oslo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    21,429
    Likes Received:
    6,472
    I think you got Corbyn totally wrong. He is neither anti semitic or a Remainer.
     
    #44395
  16. bc7

    bc7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    122
    Once we leave, I hope any referendum to try to go back in will need 75% vote, otherwise they will try every other year!
     
    #44396
    Uber_Hoop likes this.
  17. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    That muppet will be gone by January. Hopefully he will take the 'Muppet Show front bench' with him.
    Starmer seems to be distancing himself in the last few days... very quiet for him? :1980_boogie_down:
     
    #44397
  18. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    22,272
    Likes Received:
    21,602
    It's a Treasury paper that proves Johnson to have lied about Brexit. But that's not really news is it?
     
    #44398
    QPR Oslo likes this.
  19. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    17,857
    Likes Received:
    26,932
    #44399
    kiwiqpr likes this.
  20. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    22,785
    Likes Received:
    11,186
    Not really now. Funny how they managed to get confidential papers again?
    TBH Stroller it's game over for Jezza. Even he's hard core supporters think he will lose. He needed to come into this election and close the gap... he hasn't, in fact the gap is widening. I keep saying he is unelectable (which he is) because he offers nothing. Even today I switched on the news and British Asians are no longer voting Labour but Tory.They are saying Boris will have a majority of 15-20 seats I reckon it will be 30+
     
    #44400

Share This Page