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The 2019-2020 season.

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Walsh.i.am, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    You may be right, but this is not the argument Robbie is making, he is talking about changing the way we play. I would add that without Tettey we beat a PL team away from home, something that we have rarely done when he's played. From the highlights I've seen we could have won more comfortably than we did, if we had taken our chances better. Maybe we wouldn't have created as many chances or scored 2 if he played. For me whilst Tettey does strengthen us defensively he also slows down our transition from defence to attack and weakens our ability to counter attack quickly. Sooner or later Byram must surely put the ball in the net.
     
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  2. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    For me, the most telling fact about this season is the almost complete absence of Amadou in his specialist role of DM. The chief reason we concede so many goals is the amount of unguarded space we habitually leave between our last line of defence (standardly just our 2 CBs, because both FBs are pushed forward) and our midfield. The role of a specialist DM is precisely to guard that space. Amadou is quick, tall, strong and, at 26, he has top-level experience in the role combined with the necessary energy; even without the run of games needed for a player to get into his groove, he's shown good, crisp, passing ability (he releases the ball much faster than Tettey, and almost always forward, where Tettey's instinct is to stop, turn and play the ball back to a CB). Why then have we seen virtually nothing of him?
     
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  3. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    Good question. Must be a training issue.
     
    #1343
  4. GozoCanary

    GozoCanary Well-Known Member

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    Certainly Amadou has been deeply disappointing. Who knows why? Was it just that all the injuries to the centre backs meant we could never integrate him into the midfield? Or something else?

    It often seems to me that the 'big' signings for Norwich (Wolf, Naismith, Amadou etc) are failures, while the unsung arrivals (Pukki) are the ones who do well.
     
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  5. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    Why must it be "a training issue", Rob, i.e. something the player isn't putting in? Maybe he was just brought in to provide DM/CB back up. I find it very odd that a player who perfectly fits the bill in a specialist position we have always hitherto lacked, has never been played there. The way we play cries out for a genuine pivot in front of the CBs. We bring one in -- and then basically bench him. Is everything going so well that we can indulge in such a luxury?
     
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  6. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    A further consequence of not playing a genuine pivot has been the side-lining of one of the best players we have ever signed, Leitner. When we brought in Amadou, the widespread belief was that it was to give Leitner the freedom to do what he is brilliant at, managing possession and the tempo of our game. How wrong that's proved to be.
     
    #1346
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  7. GozoCanary

    GozoCanary Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've been desperately disappointed by Leitner this season. I thought he was just crying out for the Prem and would blossom there, but it seems that we are going to lose him. And if you are saying that both he and Vrancic have never been allowed to blossom into the players they could have been, I'd have to agree. Somehow we have managed to dull their creativity while not becoming solid at the back as compensation for that.
     
    #1347
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  8. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    That’s exactly what I’m saying Lisbon. And for that reason I can’t say I’m either disappointed by Leitner or surprised if he is unhappy. I’m hugely disappointed at how things have turned out in his case, and Amadou’s. And what on earth was the point in bringing in Roberts? Are we so rigid that we can’t adapt at all?
     
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  9. GozoCanary

    GozoCanary Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps - and this is only a suggestion, because I'm scared people will go for me - we are currently re-evaluating Farke? I have to admit I was one of those early last season who thought he was a flop and he should go. Then suddenly he became the Messiah and not a very naughty boy at all. Now we are seeing the good and the bad and making a more balanced appraisal of him.

    Personally I tend to think he is wasting Leitner and Vrancic, especially when they have someone like Pukki up front who is such an intelligent player in terms of his movement. The goal which VAR (f**k it!) disallowed against Spurs proved that. Farke seems a coach who has a system and squeezes players into that system rather than a coach who begins with the players and creates a system to suit them. There are arguments for both approaches and we're not going to get anyone better than Farke, so I guess we have to accept that's the way it is.
     
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  10. zogean_king

    zogean_king Well-Known Member

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    I think we also forget that Farke is still relatively inexperienced i.e. managing in the German 4th tier before he came to us. We have had virtually no money to spend and more or less our system is doing okay. We have had awful injury crisis especially in the defence and he does try things. Not as early as I would like, substitutes are still something I question at times. Players do like how we play even though there is opportunity to improve Sitti for example said he saw how Norwich played and wanted to join. I do think (from the limited highlights I have watched) that at times it is the midfield leaving the defence unprotected, we need Tettey to become the Norwegian Makélélé.
     
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  11. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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  12. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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  13. carrowcanario

    carrowcanario Well-Known Member

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    I think the thing people need to remember about Farke is he's a young (in head coach / managerial terms) upcoming coach / manager and is still developing a bit like our younger players. He will make mistakes and as long as he learns and continues to develop then we just have to accept that. For me unlike O'Neil he has a leadership style that seems to go down well with players, wants to play a style of football that the club / fans want us to play and he is learning and improving.
     
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  14. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    Under Webber, we're a club aiming to have a system that the manager can follow with all recruitment targeted to the DofF strategy. Farke was hired with that strategy in mind, football philosophy wise he was hired because he was well suited to that style. Only Webber will call it on weather he plays it well enough or better than his scouted alternatives.
    I agree with the strategy. For a side who want sustained success on a budget, imprinting that DNA through the club and recruiting accordingly is the only non-billionaire route to relative success. Maybe excepting the odd Freak season or 2 where stars align like Lambert and Holt.

    Bah!
     
    #1354
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  15. Farked19

    Farked19 Well-Known Member

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    I think that we now have to accept that we are down. I can see an argument for not finishing bottom but I cannot honestly say that I can see one for three other teams not making 38 points and I think that total is now beyond us. But if we are being realistic none of us saw being in this league eighteen months ago and we will begin next season in good financial shape and that may well not be the case with the other two relegated sides, both of whom will be playing in claret and blue - and it won't be Burnley.
     
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  16. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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  17. Canary Rob

    Canary Rob Well-Known Member

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    I’m not disagreeing with you, but before all hope is given up:
    - Our “easiest” (albeit must win) matches are yet to come
    - We are playing the best football we have this season with finally a near full complement of fit players (unfortunately not Pukki’s toe though...)
    - We have just been through a patch where our direct competitors all play each other which means they inevitably pick up points
    - Sunderland were in a worse position imo and they stayed up with whatever ridiculous results it was - four wins in five matches or something, which means it really is not over until the fat lady. Some of our final matches are against teams whose season’s may be over
     
    #1357
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  18. zogean_king

    zogean_king Well-Known Member

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    Leeds are doing their best to implode again. They are 2nd having just been overtaken by WBA with one win in 5. Fulham lead the chasing pack and are just 3 points behind.
     
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  19. Farked19

    Farked19 Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to look too far to see another team doing a Leeds implosion.
     
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  20. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I don't think we'll make it, I'm willing to hope as long as there is a chance. DF has a good record when fighting relegation:

    https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/canaries-daniel-farke-premier-league-relegation-omen-1-6495298

    Both our football and results have improved, but we need to turn draws into wins. We were unlucky to lose to Spurs and we have two wins and a draw in the other games in our last four. Unlike Robbie, I think Tettey did provide an effective deep pivot and screen in front of the defence. He and McLean forced Newcastle wide most of the time and except for Joelinton's header which Krul saved, they were mostly reduced to half chances. Liverpool will provide a sterner test, but if we are to survive we'll need points from the big teams as well as from the others.
     
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