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COVID 19 and vaccines

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Vincemac, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. Bank of England 2

    Bank of England 2 Well-Known Member

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    EU Politicians showing themselves for what they are, a bunch of tin pot dictators.

    People are critical of Boris, and in some cases rightly so, but he's got the vaccine programme spot on. He went for it, and placed the orders. The EU Procrastinated, and now they are left picking up the pieces.

    Now there's loads of in-fighting, and fractures are starting to appear.
     
    #281
  2. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

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    well said mate
     
    #282
  3. LAMackem

    LAMackem Well-Known Member

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    Got my first jab yesterday. It was the Moderna one. Would have took any
     
    #283
  4. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

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    Bang on the money that is. The EU love the process in any and everything. They hide behind it, and blame everyone else through it.

    But it is not just supply shortage in Europe that is causing the problems. Many millions of doses lie unused, including one third of the Moderna doses in Germany. All over Europe, no country seems to gave given any any thought as to how they will actually get the stuff into arms at pace.

    As the say, " It's not vaccines that save that day, it's vaccinations" .
     
    #284
    Makemstine Roger likes this.
  5. MrRAWhite

    MrRAWhite Well-Known Member

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    We are still the worst for numbers of deaths despite out government fiddling the figures down last year.
     
    #285
  6. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

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    Don't think it's about countries though . If France, Germany, Italy and Holland had been allowed to do their own thing last summer, most of the problems would have been averted . The other countries would have swiftly joined in.

    It is the EU not Europe that is at fault here. People are being hideously let down by a bureaucratic tyranny which is failing very badly and very publicly in it's first real test.

    Ordinary people all over Europe are getting a far worse deal than they should be getting.
     
    #286
    Bank of England 2 likes this.
  7. The Exile II

    The Exile II Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a fair bit of fiddling going on elsewhere too mind. Not to mention the UK method of someone dying of a heart attack or getting hit by a bus and being put down as a COVID death if they've tested positive.

    Ultimately those who said wait until the end of the pandemic to tot up the 'score' are being proved right. It'll be years, maybe decades, until the true death toll is known.
     
    #287
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  8. Porterfield73

    Porterfield73 Well-Known Member

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    Or as Van Tam says, ' vaccines are no good in fridges, they need to be in arms'
     
    #288
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  9. MrRAWhite

    MrRAWhite Well-Known Member

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    That's just not true.
     
    #289
    old lads fan likes this.
  10. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

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    This country, along with Belgium has the most open way of accounting for deaths anywhere. It is not right or wrong, but that's the way it is.

    In France, if you die of covid at home, you cannot be counted. If you die in a care home there you were not counted earlier, not sure about now.

    Other countries have differing ways of counting . Not right or wrong it's just the way they do things.

    Excess deaths, while being quite complex to decipher, are a better measure and for 2020 show much more even figures.

    I expect that, if an honest assessment is ever done, ( it won't be) then most countries of similar levels else of wealth will have similar levels of fatalities from covid, allowing for population density and other factors.

    If however, it turns out that disproportionate amounts of people have died here than in those other countries, then we should look to their own health care systems to learn from them.
     
    #290

  11. MrRAWhite

    MrRAWhite Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree with that. Deaths from other illness and accidents are way down because of the measures taken against Covid.
     
    #291
  12. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

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    Actually it was true, and though the example is extreme, the case is still that if you have an underlying condition from which you were in real danger of dying , and then die, and you also tested positive for covid, then you would be counted as a covid death.

    This happened my aunt. I've actually no problem with it. It is very open, and they feel they cannot ignore it, even though in my aunt's case, her dying had been inevitable.
     
    #292
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  13. MrRAWhite

    MrRAWhite Well-Known Member

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    Accidents are not counted in covid figures. As for underlying conditions, then covid could then undoubtedy be a contributory factor in dying.
     
    #293
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  14. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

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    By how much? Which deaths? Where are the studies?

    It is not a simple business, but if you realky think that people have a lower chance of survival here than in all the countries with lower published death figures, a visit to the temporary morgues in Germany or Italy might be in order.
     
    #294
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  15. rowley

    rowley Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you don't want to see it.

    My aunt had advanced terminal lung cancer. Her last three weeks were in hospital where she contracted covid.

    According to her death certificate, she died of covid. They feel they have no choice, and the same thing has been done in many cases.
     
    #295
  16. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

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    spot on mate don't know when i'll get a jab here its not even officially ordered yet, and the death rate here is astronomical, the facts are in DE BILT NEWS but the gov here are deleting the news stories all the time they dont want it getting out, the TV stations here never mention the death rate
     
    #296
  17. Makemstine Roger

    Makemstine Roger Well-Known Member

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    good on you mate so we will have to put up with you for years to come, i will look forward to that
     
    #297
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  18. Montysoptician

    Montysoptician Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about your Aunt Rowley. COVID deaths in England are those that have COVID recorded on the death certificate as a cause of death, it doesn’t need to be the primary cause, it just needs to be recorded on the death certificate as one of the causes.

    The daily COVID death report was introduced to inform the public on a daily basis and counts deaths from any cause within 28 days of a positive COVID test. This isn’t accurate and is not used when the statistics are compiled.
     
    #298
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  19. Bank of England 2

    Bank of England 2 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, it is mate. I know two people who are currently fighting to have 'cause of death' changed on the death certificate.
     
    #299
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  20. MrRAWhite

    MrRAWhite Well-Known Member

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    And I have saw many more examples where Covid has never been mentioned. Also long covid deaths not recorded as they are outside of 28 day maximum.
     
    #300

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