Match Day Thread Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

6500 figure is for all deaths from the countries who hold records India Nepal Bangladesh & Pakistan from same report
While death records are not categorised by occupation or place of work,
obviously loads will have been working in construction but a chunk will have died with no connection to their job .
Don't get me wrong the conditions there were and still are well below the ones here but you cannot attribute all deaths to the WC .

 

Right so Heat stroke, exhaustion etc are not direct causes.

Thanks for clarifying.

As in W T actual F...... it's a ****ing hell hole of endentured servitude where these poor people and flogged to death building the stuff the Qatar royalty want to now show off to the world.

 

Does it matter whether or not the deaths are directly linked to the WC?

 

I agree with that statement, but Britain is still far from a shining beacon even today. (no country is). I would point to such rules as the anti protest laws, how Ukrainian plight has been received vs slightly less white nations in similar situations. I'd also point to how wealth and privilege in Britain can keep your bad deeds being reported in the press. There is involvement in Iraq war... Etc, etc. It's not all colonial crap, and I agree, things that happened generations ago should be worth a mention.

Not picking on Britain here... Just one we're all familiar with since colonial times mentioned. America has major faults too, as does France, Spain, &c. &c.

Are western European and North America nations as besmirched as Qatar and Dubai. Probably not

 

does for this convo as my point was when Mito said they had "killed 6500 workers" he was pushing the bounds of reality to stretching point . People do die from accidents , heart attacks , strokes and lots of other **** as well as accidents on construction sites .

 

Mate


Seriously...

Suggest you take a look at the conditions amd reports on this one.

They've been abysmal so when peopeka re touting about showing all the lovely stuff they are walking over the bones of workers imo.

 

I wasn't excusing anything. Just acknowledging that we are not squeaky clean.

Like I said, I object to how Qatar and Dubai have and do behave, so have no interest in holidaying there

 

and i suggest you actually stop over dramatising everything and just stick to reality which gives you more than enough to criticise them for .

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...grant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

Not hard to see where the number comes from.

When they show off all their building efforts there's masses of migrant worker deaths and many many more treated like absolute ****.

That's REALITY

 

ok find out how many workers from those countries have worked there in the last 12 years and then give me a percentage based on that for deaths for any reason never mind them being "killed" in construction though would be better if it was construction since that was your original post.
Thats reality .

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decod...hs-on-qatar-construction-sites_6004375_8.html

World Cup 2022: The difficulty with estimating the number of deaths on Qatar construction sites
By Gary Dagorn and Iris Derœux
Published on November 15, 2022 at 15h26, updated at 15h32 on November 15, 2022


The estimate that 6,500 workers have died on World Cup construction sites in Qatar is a number that is quoted often, but the true figure is difficult to ascertain.

In early 2021, UK newspaper The Guardian published a detailed investigation revealing that at least 6,500 migrant workers in Qatar had died between 2011 and 2020. Since then, this figure of 6,500 deaths has become central to the criticism of the 2022 World Cup organization, and many have quoted it thinking that it corresponds to the number of workers who have died on the construction sites of the competition's stadiums, or more broadly on World Cup construction sites. However, this is not quite the case.

A census of immigrants who have died in Qatar
The Guardian's investigation, published in February 2021, focused on non-Qatari residents who had died in the country between 2011 and the end of 2020. Using death records produced by the embassies or government departments of five countries with large numbers of nationals in Qatar (India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Pakistan), the newspaper counted 6,751 confirmed deaths of workers during this 10-year period – noting that this number may have been significantly underestimated, as it did not include nationals of other countries (Philippines, Kenya etc) who were also numerous in Qatar. Deaths during the last months of 2020 and 2021 were also not included in the data collected by The Guardian.

Among the causes of these deaths, one predominated: death by natural causes, accounting for 70% of the causes cited for Indian, Nepalese and Bangladeshi workers. This was partly because no autopsy or medical examination had been performed to determine the actual cause of death.

This followed an initial investigation by the same newspaper into Qatar's preparations for the World Cup, published back in 2013, describing situations of "forced labor, a form of modern slavery," which led to several dozen deaths over the summer. It documented the daily lives of Nepalese workers on the construction sites of Lusail – a new Qatari city built north of Doha, intended to house the largest of the seven stadiums constructed – whose papers had been confiscated, who were not paid their wages, and who were housed in insanitary conditions. The same year, Le Monde also denounced the working conditions of immigrants in Qatar.

The limitations of embassy records

This figure obviously had its limits. The records of foreign embassies consulted by The Guardian almost never specified the age of the deceased, the place of death or the sector in which they had worked. This led Max Tuñon, director of the Qatar branch of the International Labour Organization (ILO), to say that some of these deaths may not be construction workers but office workers or unemployed people.

Unsurprisingly, Qatar has strongly disputed these figures, claiming that only 37 deaths have occurred among workers on stadium construction sites: three have been attributed to work accidents and 34 to other causes (10 of which involved men aged between 20 and 40).

Deaths at locations other than stadium construction sites

In its communication, the Qatari government generally included only the renovation or construction sites of the eight competition stadiums, which represent just 2% of the workers employed in the construction industry in Qatar.

But much of the accommodation and public transport network (such as the Doha subway) would probably not have been built if Qatar was not hosting the World Cup, which is expected to welcome 1.2 million people to a country of 330,000 citizens.

NGOs believe that the spectacular construction boom in the country over the past decade has been largely attributable to FIFA's decision to award it the competition, especially since "the timetable for the infrastructure program in Qatar is entirely wedded to the World Cup delivery date," said Tim Noonan, campaign director for the International Trade Union Confederation (ITUC), interviewed by the BBC in 2015.

Workers walk to the Lusail Stadium, the largest of the eight stadiums to host the 2022 World Cup matches, built in the namesake city north of Doha, Dec. 20, 2019. Hassan Ammar / AP
The figure of 6,500 deaths has not been echoed by the main NGOs closely monitoring the situation of migrant workers in Qatar and the Gulf states, who instead have referred to "several thousand deaths" of migrant workers, an order of magnitude they believe is consistent with their observations on the ground and the research they have been conducting in the emirate for more than ten years. The ITUC had estimated in 2013 that 4,000 workers would have died by the time the World Cup kicked off in November 2022.

Official statistics are inconsistent

The Qatari government has released official statistics on the subject annually. While their reliability or completeness is unknown, they may provide some clues.

According to the data, 12,412 immigrant men died between 2011 and 2020, nearly half of whom (5,935) were between 20 and 50 years old, which is relatively young. The Qataris explained to The Guardian that the number of deaths was proportional to the size of the immigrant population, undisclosed by the authorities but estimated at 2.5 million in 2020, an argument repeated by the Indian authorities, who believe that the mortality rate is that which is expected of such a large population.

This is not entirely accurate, as these young men had been selected following a thorough medical examination, as Mr. Noonan pointed out in 2015. "Qatar requires them to undergo a medical exam to detect previous medical problems, so it's like comparing apples and pears," he said.

Deaths of young adults

The over-representation of these young adults is particularly clear in the age-specific death data. In 2020, 25% of the immigrant men who died in the country were between 20 and 40 years old, while this same age group accounted for 10% of the deaths recorded among Qatari men. The gap was even greater in 2012, when 20-40 year olds accounted for almost 40% of those immigrants who had died, compared to 12% for Qataris.

The same trend was observed among 40-60 year olds. Their share varied between 20% and 26% among Qatari deaths, while it represented between 35% and 42% of immigrant deaths.

The same observations can be made when the demographic weight of each age group in the respective populations of Qatari and immigrant men is brought to bear. Among Qatari men, the vast majority of deaths occur in the over-55 age group, whereas they represent a minority in the country's rather young population. The demographics of immigrant men are different, but so is their mortality: the majority of deaths are under 55 years of age (about 60%), and one in five immigrant deaths is between 35 and 44 years of age.

The 'wet globe thermometer'

These many deaths can be explained in large part to exposure to the dust and extreme heat of the Gulf climate during much of the year, which makes outdoor work very difficult and hazardous to health. Temperatures can frequently exceed 40°C in the summer and remain above 30°C for at least six months of the year. To protect construction workers, Qatar has banned outdoor work from 11:30am to 3pm. This measure, which is in reality infrequently enforced, is also grossly inadequate to prevent harm to workers' health, as analysis published by The Guardian in October 2019 has shown.

The newspaper calculated the so-called wet bulb thermometer (or WBGT) temperatures – an index that measures the combined effects of heat, solar radiation and air humidity on the human body. If it exceeds 28°C, it is considered dangerous. In Qatar, this value is frequently exceeded, especially in August when it reaches 28-30°C for almost the entire day. From mid-June onwards, temperatures are so high that it becomes dangerous to work outside for more than 15 minutes an hour for most of the day. However, countless workers have testified to working days of at least 10 hours, sometimes 12, in defiance of safety regulations.

Cardiac arrest and kidney problems
In a study published in July 2019 in the medical journal Cardiology, an international team of researchers noted a strong correlation between temperatures and cardiovascular events recorded among Nepalese migrant workers in Qatar. "The pronounced mortality from cardiovascular events during hot seasons is most likely due to intense heat stress," said the researchers, who estimated that about 35% of fatal cardiac arrests could have been prevented by better protecting workers from heat.

"Young men have a very low incidence of cardiac arrest," Dr. Dan Atar, a professor of cardiology at Oslo University Hospital and co-author of the study, told The Guardian, especially since "these workers are recruited in their countries partly for their good health, and yet hundreds of them die every year in Qatar."

Immigrant workers exposed to this heat could also develop severe chronic kidney disease (called CKDnt), which disproportionately affects men in material handling positions in construction. In a short publication from March 2020, a team of Nepalese researchers noted these systematic impairments in a cohort of 44 Nepalese workers monitored for six months during 2019, three-quarters of whom were returning from Gulf countries (and a quarter from Malaysia). While the medical causes of these kidney diseases were still undetermined, excessive working hours and lack of access to necessary medical care appeared to have played a decisive role.

 

Just wow.



Leave at that.

 

I want to know where they get this 28-30 degs in August from. As someone who has actually lived and worked in Qatar this temp might be at night, as the day is normally 40+ at that time of year.

Regarding migrant workers. I was there when they were building the new airport as the company I worked for were responsible for the HBS x Ray machines. The Qataris did give the workers PPE etc. but they don’t care if they die because they they will be replaced. That’s the sad reality. Even though all this bad treatment has been exposed , the people from Pakistan, Bangladesh etc will still come because what they are paid is still far more than what they would get working at home.

If you think treatment of migrant workers in Qatar and UAE is bad, it pales into comparison to how the Saudis treat them.

 

Summary...?

 

Depends whether you're discussing 'world cup deaths' or the country in general

(I'm not reading back)

 

the fact is they bought the world cup in 2010 corruptly and have been on a building blitz since and all deaths are directly linked to their grand plan.

the amount of deaths of 20-50 year old males are there for all to see if they do read back and the "natural causes" kind of explanation doesn't wash.

 

There's more to life than football.

 

Yeah, food!

 

David de Gea has been left ‘surprised’ after receiving a message from the head of the Spanish FA congratulating him on his international retirement, despite having yet to retire for his country.

[Jose Alvarez]

 

The head of the Spanish FA has clearly seen him play recently!!