Match Day Thread Norwich City v Liverpool

I don't care what his dominant foot is, he couldn't play as bad as Martin did today.

 

Yes, I'd like to see that line up - perhaps when we go away to Villa in a couple of weeks!!

 

Yes Martin was rubbish, and yes, he doesn't deserve to start against Spurs but he wasn't the only player who had a poor game defensively. Between a goalkeeper, another centre back, two full backs, two defensive midfielders (nothing stopping Redmond and co. helping out either a la Cameron Jerome) not all of the goals we conceded can be directly attributed to him. Of course the backpass can, but Brady made an equally as stupid mistake for the winner.

NEWSFLASH: Dropping Russell Martin will not solve our defensive problems. My thoughts?

1. Having Tettey would be a great help - although we might not have scored four with him on the pitch - we probably wouldn't have conceded five. Dorrans and Howson didn't offer RM and co. much protection. Maybe Mulumbu should be getting more time on the pitch as he can defend and pass.
2. What if Klose isn't the answer to all our prayers? He will probably come in for the Spurs game but I don't see how one man could possibly turn around our defensive fortunes.
3. Ryan Bennett isn't Premier League quality. Contraversial? Bassong is better (great strike by the way).
4. Full backs are actually defenders. Olsson, Brady and Pinto were rampaging forward leaving is vulnerable. Pinto is getting a lot of praise - his attacking game was good, but he neglected his defensive duties - exactly what Whittaker was hated for. I would like to see Brady play in midfield rather than at left back.
5. We are a reasonably good attacking side and we scored some decent goals today.
6. The transfer window is not yet finished. We must have some cash left with Hooper gone. Invest it into our Premier League future. A left back? A centre back? A striker? Basically anyone who will help us get points on the board.

 

Tettey is on 9 yellows, so one more and he misses 2 games - that may well have been part of AN's thinking today, in that he'd rather have him in the team for the Spurs game and miss Villa and Wet Sham.

I agree RM wasn't the only defender at fault, but he is also the captain and I couldn't believe the space Henderson had for Liverpool's second.

Just seen the player ratings from the Daily Fail - Rudd 5; Pinto 5, Martin 4.5, Bassong 6, Brady 5; Redmond 6.5 (Jarvis 70, 6), Dorrans 6.5, Howson 6, Hoolahan 7 (Olsson 70, 6); Naismith 7.5 (Jerome 82); Mbokani 6.5.
Personally, I would swap the ratings for Hoolahan and Mbokani.

 

I mentioned this earlier - and stand by it

 

Look at how we conceded the goals we did. The majority were from poor decision making by our 2 CB's. Both our LB & RB also made poor decisions at times, but at least they looked good going forward. I'm not sure what goals were due to poor decisions by our midfield. We were better going forward today because we didn't, probably more by luck than judgement, overload our midfield with defensively minded players to cover the inadequacies of predominately our 2 CB's. Interestingly, Redmond seemed to have a better game than he's had in a while, when he was able to concentrate more on attack. Pinto did okay for his first game, although he will need to get better. Brady is not playing in his best position, because our dedicated LB, Olsson, isn't good enough for the premier league. Our priority must be another CB. If we can sort out the core of our defence we have a good chance of staying up even with the strikers & midfielders we currently have. We can strengthen our midfield / attack as much as we like, but it still won't solve our most significant problem. I also feel that we would do better if AN picked what he thought was our best team, rather than select the 11 players he likes the best and try and fit them into a team. I said even before we kick a ball the neither Martin nor Hoolahan should have been in our starting 11 and I saw nothing during the game to change my mind. I don't know whether Klose by himself can improve our defence sufficiently, but what is clear to me is that whenever Martin plays a CB we appear shambolic in defence.

 

Tbf the first goal was Brady's fault. And he played them onside a couple of times, but he has more than enough credit in the bank to get away with it.

I agree that Redmond looked twice the player without Martin behind him. Still trying to work out why

 

Ryan Bennett isn't Premiership quality??? On that basis Russell Martin isn't league 2 quality.

 

AN feels he's better at LB than LM?
There's a growing band of opposition to that consensus, starting in the gem of the north Norfolk coast
Olsson may not be the answer, but I think with Brady ahead of him, we'd be able to get on the front foot more?

 

- especially the parts I've highlighted!!!!

This

 

Is Mulumbu no longer a consideration to cover Tettey's role? I'd have thought he'd have been a great option for today in front of defence

 

At right back he's a bit better than League 2 quality. And being better at centre back than Russell Martin doesn't make Ryan Bennett a Premier League quality defender.

Bassong, despite his obvious shortcomings is better.

 

He's not really shown great promise in the few games he has played, although arguably nor has Dorrans and personally I think we should be utilising Mulumbu more too.

 

Okay a "bit" better than league 2, league 1 then? He was totally out of his depth today at centre back against a very poor Liverpool side.

 

Their defence might be poor but Henderson, Firmino and Milner are good players. They're in the top ten for a reason. Of course that doesn't mean it is 'acceptable' to concede five goals to them but it takes more than just one player to put in such a poor defensive performance.

Was Martin good today? No, he was crap. He has been average at best all season and last season too for that matter. Should he be the sole object of criticism for today's performance and our lack of clean sheets all season? Sure, he's played his part but arguably Pinto, Bassong, Brady, Dorrans, Rudd, Redmond, Olsson and Howson were 'out of their depth against a very poor Liverpool side' and we can't drop all of those guys.

So in short, he was rubbish and will probably lose his place in the team but arguably Brady and many others were no better yet nobody is calling for them to be dropped.

We sure love our scapegoats. Before Martin it was Whittaker, before that Snodgrass - it must be a Scottish thing.

 

Fair comment RM2.
Rudd - didn't have a good game and his defence left him horribly exposed. Not too sure he could have done much about any of the goals.
Pinto - was up against Milner most of the time and luckily won't have to deal with midfielders/forwards of that quality every week (well, not after Spurs anyway!!) and I expect him to improve.
Bassong - seemed to go AWOL a lot of the time and I feel that he has performed better when Bennett is the other CB.
Brady - several both on here and on the EDP website have been calling for Olsson to be reinstated, so that he could be used further forward, which suits him better.
Redmond - I was disappointed to see him in the starting 11 and feel he needs to be on the bench for a few weeks (if at all). I can't remember the last time he had a good game at home (I don't go to away games).
Dorrans - I'm just not sure what he brings to the team and not sure why AN signed him.
Howson - hasn't played well for several games I feel and the same goes for Hoolahan.

That leaves Naismith and Mbokani (Dave) who both had a good game.
Luckily, we have no game next Saturday, so let's hope AN and his coaching staff get the players to 'work their socks off' to be ready for Spurs at home on Feb 2nd and Villa away on Feb 6th. If we don't take a minimum of 3 points from those 2 games, then I don't hold much hope of our PL survival.

 

8 of our players were out of their depth? We bossed the game for an hour and scored 4 goals!! Defensive mistakes lost us the game and it all started with R Martin.

 

When you concede 5 at home it is tough to make a case for any of the back five having a decent game. Even tougher when we conceded 9 in the prior three matches.

I didn't feel that Rudd did a lot wrong yesterday. Two of the Liverpool goals were mishits which is always tough for keepers and he was horribly exposed for the other three. I know he was a bit hesitant and he does not dominate the box as Ruddy used to but given the shambles in front of him I thought he did OK.

I think Brady is our POTS to date and has been a brilliant buy but he was at fault for their first by being out of line. If AN wants him to be our first choice LB then he needs to keep him there and drill the defence.

AN now has a bit of time to decide on the defence he wants to put out and the players need to be put through their paces.

Martin needs a break. Something is wrong mentally and he needs to get his head right before crossing the white line again.

Hopefully Klose and Pinto will integrate swiftly and give us a bit more solidity. Time will tell.

I think that yesterday just felt like such a collosal kick in the teeth as we were two up, chucked it away only to salvage a point in injury time and then to chuck that away too. Combine that with us scoring three really good goal and Liverpool scoring from our errors it just felt awful.

At least other results went our way yesterday and we are still out of the bottom three

 

Norfolkbhoy - The voice of sanity!!!

 

You have to laugh at our defence or else you'd probably cry.

RM - To play a backpass from the half way line without even looking up (the ball had no pace anyway) is drilled into you at about 8 years old. A PL defender? Hopefully.

Every time a team attacks us you can't help but feel they're going to score. Fortunately I feel almost every time we attack we are capable of scoring. Just need to really tighten up at the back (easier said than done).

Was Bennett dropped to accommodate Martin as Pinto was starting at RB? If so can someone please explain WHY?