The 'where is Manny' Singapore GP chat and predictions

Yep. It's the same with a lot of incidents. Certain acts of driving are allowed, which become the norm, so when something does happen its difficult for the stewards to do something about it because they have let similar incidents go because there was no consequences.

A rule is then put into the book, which is taken to the letter by the drivers which just means bad manners on the track become the norm as the FIA have legislated for them i.e. the 'racing line' rule which effectively allows drivers to be pushed off the circuit by another.

 

The sport is already a procession. it need's some bad manners and ballsy driving/defending. Get rid of all of that and we're actually left with nothing.

 

Hmmm. In the case of the lead driver being entitled to the racing line no matter what, perhaps if this wasn't the case we would have more scope for imaginative overtaking, forcing the door open.

Hamilton on Kimi at the first chicane at Monza a few years ago springs to mind.

 

And that's why we're seeing better racing, in a way, because there are clearly defined rules now for what is and isn't acceptable so the drivers know what the limits are.

There is no set rule about chopping at the start, but ultimately it did Vettel no favours, so driver intelligence should have taken precedence..............actually that's giving drivers credit that they have intelligence. Am sure an old team boss said something about that years ago!

 

Sgt..i am not advocating that they should not race, my problem is that vettel knew who he was racing against and it was Hamilton not Max. There was no need to go fight Max so strongly at that point..it would only end in tears. To be honest if he had pulled it off it would have looked great, but it caused an accident and that was not so great.

 

It's all opinions, and we're never going to all see eye to eye on this one, but I disagree. The position of all the off them resulted in the accident, and by the time it actually takes place, I'd argue that Vettel has cleared Max and pulled off his move.

Essentially it's just one of those things that happens in racing, and I think Vettel is getting an unfair amount blame for the whole thing.

 

I agree that Vettel had cleared or almost cleared Max, but had max managed to get out quick enough, Vettel would have not been award that he and Kimi were on a collision course and i am sure at that speed there is now way he would have avoided the wedge shaped collision with his teammate. Vettel only got ahead of Max because Max lifted trying to avoid the crash. Vettel didnt know Kimi was coming that fast, in fact he said he wasnt aware that Kimi was there

 

Naah. Once Max was in his mirrors he'd be lining up for the upcoming corner. Don't think those two would have come to the point of collision.

 

Ok well we have tp gree to disagree...lol. the trajectory, speed ...i and both not know each other is there = collision...well thats how i see it...now i dont blame them.for trying, i just think that when.you look at Vettel's position in the championship then you would see it was ill advised. He would have bern better advised to make sure Hamilton doesnt get a run on him, finish ahead of Hamilton..most likely first...but i guess maybe he was a bit worried about Hamilton's pace in the wet this year.

 

Seen this.

Vettel has only himself to blame for crash - Villeneuve

Given who said it we can now agree that Vettel was blameless. Not sure I 100% agree but the rules of opposites say so.

 

the only reason Kimi hit Vettel was because Kimi's rear hit Max and skewered the car into Vettel, if that hadn't happened then Kimi would've got passed Vettel without incident. Vettel had straightened his car when Kimi hit him, and he#d left enough room for a car alongside, there just wasn't enough for 2 of them, and there was a wall, rather than a bit of run-off, on the other side of the white line. For me none of them are too blame, it's just one of those things that happens on street circuits.
Trying to think of who started it all, I can remember Mansell ranting and raving about Senna in Canada 1991 or 2 for driving him off the track, it's the earliest I can think of when driving standards suddenly lost their gentlemanly approach, not sure about the aiming towards the other driver on the grid, but Rosberg and Hamilton were at it almost every race and I doubt they were first.

 

Only thing I can remember about that race is Mansell accidentally switching the car off on the last lap... The rest has been wiped from my memory.

 

quick check shows that was 91 when he turned the engine off waving to the crowd, it was 92 when he got 'forced' off the track by Senna, then sat in his car in the middle of the start/finish straight waiting for Senna to come back around so he could give him the finger, then he went and bent Ron Dennis' ear about cheating and dirty driving.

 

And looking further back, it shows some pretty deft driving from Alonso.

In those conditions, with two wheels on grippy tarmac and two on the yellow paint (which looks like an ice rink), followed by a short bit over the kerb. All of that while accelerating hard and then braking.

 

Oh.. I think I remember what you mean. Was what actually happened ever caught on camera? I just remember the aftermath of that but never actually seeing footage of the incident.

 

no, the only bits I can find on you-tube are just before and just after, plus the pit lane rant, but I think it's a case of Senna turning as late as possible to stop Mansell going around the out-side on the entry to the final chicane and forcing him off.

I think the reason why it crept in was because, by that time, drivers had stopped dying on a race by race basis. If you drove like that 'way back when' then you had a good chance of burning to death

 

Some bits from the race. Not just lap 1

 

and then pretty much follows Seb in squeezing Max too much..

Also, looking at it again, there's a lot of room on the track to Kimi's left, he's putting the squeeze on Max and would've known there were at least 2 cars on his right.

 

I'm surprised this has not been the subject of a lot more discussion.
Perhaps Vettel and Verstappen are easier targets when it comes to hot-headed driving, but it could be argued Raikkonen had a significant role in this disastrous incident. He tried to squeeze Verstappen on his right when he could have stayed straight. A legitimate move, but… squeezing would have worked only if Vettel had not swung across, thus closing Verstappen's option to move right. Verstappen had nowhere to go, and – as seems to have been agree by this forum – at the last moment when he realised he had no sideways option, he actually tried to back out of it.

 

It was discussed a bit on the previous page Cosi, by Dhel and myself. At the moment when Max and Kimi touched, Kimi had acres of space on his left but was still drifting across to his right.