Off Topic Boxing

Although I have not seen him for a year or so I used to bump into Ken Buchanan in some of Leith's less salubrious rub-a-dubs. Really nice guy who liked to keep himself to himself unless you treated him like an equal. We had great conversations about his fights at Madison Square Garden including the time he shared a dressing room with the then Cassius Clay. You would love his narrative concerning the bout with Roberto Duran. Of special interest to me was his judgement on the competition between Duran, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns and, my favourite, Sugar Ray Leonard. When you think that this weight division also had Alan Minter, Vito Antuofermo, Iran Barkley and others about at the same time it certainly was a golden age.

On the heavyweight division my 'man' will always be Joe Frazier.

 

It's pretty hard not to be an Ali fan. As has been stated a million times over, he transcended the sport of boxing. He overcame the fear and hate directed at him early in his career, and went on to become a global icon. In many eyes, Muhammad Ali is considered the Athlete of the 20th Century. Leaving his personality aside though, and focusing on the sorting side of things, Ali changed the heavyweight scene.

I well remember as a child, my father's stunned reactions to the way Ali moved around the ring. My father wasn't much chop in the ring, but did spend a number of amateur years boxing while in the Royal Navy and did a little bit of training of others in his latter years. He loved the sport. As a kid he grew up in that period when the mighty Joe Louis was building his legendary status. According to the old man, there would never be another heavyweight to match the Brown Bomber. But then Ali burst onto the scene. He'd never seen anything like him. He quickly became a fan. Though that deep seated love he had for Louis wouldn't let him place Ali above his hero, he wouldn't rate him below Joe either. Good enough for me.

My other favourite heavyweight is Mike Tyson.

(Sorry Ron.)

 

Wilder. 212 pounds.

Fury. 256 pounds.

 

Wilder a bit lighter than usual. Trying for a bit more speed to match Tyson's movement. Which is crazy considering he is 44lbs lighter anyway!

 

Good morning, Cyc.
Yes, I have to agree that Ali transcended the sport and, sadly, we missed his best years through his draft dodging.
My father fought professionally and was mad on boxing. He was immensely proud that one of his best friends, Tommy Marren, a lightweight, was awarded the Jem Mace belt for his contribution to boxing.
Did you know that Jem Mace was really the first heavyweight champion of the world, although the distinction was given to John L. Sullivan?
More to the point, my father kept me up from when I was six years old listening to big fights on the relay radio. My earliest recollection was listening to Don Cockell fight Rocky Marciano for the title.
When we finally got a TV set, we used to watch the “Fight of the Week “ on BBC TV and, boy, I used to love some of those!
As a teenager, I read most of the life stories of the early heavyweight champions.
Fascinating, some of them.
My father worked with a man who went to Canada to watch the title fight between Corbett and Fitzimmons. He said that the whole experience was unbelievable.
Apparently Corbett dominated for most of the fight but Fitzimmons,who was really only a slip of a middleweight who didn’t train and ate and drank too much, just would not quit. Also, he had a devastating body punch to the solar plexus- and that gave him victory.
After the fight, pandemonium broke out and Corbett’s father, who had gambled all he owned on his son, put a gun to his own head and pulled the trigger.
Fitzimmons was certainly underrated and held world titles at three different weights.
No sport causes more disagreements as to who was the best boxer/fighter at different weights. For my money, I should rate Roberto Duran as the best pound-for-pound fighter I ever saw.
Sadly, he tends to be remembered more for his loss to Sugar Ray Leonard in their rematch than for his fantastic achievements. The only pro boxer to win fights in five decades, he was virtually unbeatable as a lightweight and held titles at four different weights. A fantastic fighter!
Close behind, I should put Carlos Monzon. Unbeaten in a thirteen year period, he was the complete boxer come fighter.
I never saw Sugar Ray Robinson, but he,Ali,and Jack Dempsey were my father’s favourites.
I should give a special mention to old Archie Moore. A great light heavyweight!
He was 38 years old when he fought Marciano for the heavyweight championship and, but for a referee’s blunder, would almost certainly have won the title and spoiled Marciano’ s perfect record. Moore put Marciano down with a terrific right (for only the second time in his career) but the referee gave him a mandatory count of eight- not introduced nor allowed at that time.
As an aside, Cyc, did you know that Moore had a fantastic method of losing weight? I remember his fighting an Italian called Rinaldi in a non-title fight. He was vastly overweight with spare tyres round his stomach- and lost on points.
A few months later, Rinaldi fought him for the light heavyweight title and Moore, fit and trim as a butcher’s dog, gave him a boxing lesson.
Apparently, the aborigines taught Moore how to lose weight by “chewing the cud.”
What do you think of that?
All the best, Cyc.

 

We somehow got side tracked and ended up posting a few thoughts on boxing on Mallafets' thread, Best Fillies/Mares of All Time on the Flat. Tam offered up some wonderful memories and insights on boxing's past. According to Tam, and I agree, one of the best pound for pound fighters in the sport was Roberto Duran. In one of my favourite Duran fights, the man known as "Hands of Stone" returned to the ring to take on the WBA Super Welterweight Champion Davey Moore who was making the fourth defense of the belt he won from Japan's Tadashi Mihara.

Duran entered the bout with pretty ordinary form. In the three and a half years since the No Mas incident against Leonard, Duran had won four and lost two, causing quite a few fans to fear for the 32 year old's health against the Brown Bomber. Davey Moore climbed through the ropes as a 2-5 favourite. The fight was fought on the night of Duran's thirty second birthday.

The referee had a shocker.

 

Yeh I've the seen the Davey Moore fight many times.
A lesson in pure brutality by Duran. He was never the kind of guy who would show any mercy on an opponent.

Without googling it, I wonder if Moore ever fought again.

 

Alarm set

 

Try Cricfree Reebs.

 

How did Fury get up from that? Purely on a points basis there is no way Fury didn't win that fight. The judge who had Wilder winning by 4 points must have had them level apart from the 2 knock downs, in which case he is either blind, stupid or a cheat. And Fury even finished the round the stronger despite the knock down which seemed to have knocked him out cold. The look of surprise on wilder's face when Fury got off the canvass. Not many would have got up from that. Full credit to Fury who gave Wilder a boxing lesson. Some comeback after all the problems Fury has had and having to lose 10 (Ten) stone to get to this fight

 

It was a real shame Fury hit the deck twice. I think he still had won enough rounds to get the nod. I know one thing for sure though, the crowd certainly didn't like the decision.

 

I had Fury winning by 2 rounds. I don't think the draw is massively controversial I've seen much worse but it's a shame for Fury, hell no doubt feel very hard done by. He was on away soil against an unbeaten champion so was probably down 3 rounds on paper before first bell even rang. Unfair but it's been like that in boxing since the beginning of time. Champion gets the benefit of the doubt. I thought it was a pretty crap fight overall, Fury made Wilder miss a lot but I don't think he offered too much coming forward himself. Apart from the knock downs there wasn't too much excitement in the fight. Punch stats had wilder landing with more success but at the end of the day that's just someone pressing a button based on what they see. Regardless of the outcome what a remarkable comeback from Fury. Not sure there will be a rematch Wilder might now want to cash in on that Joshua fight and earn the big bucks whilst still technically on top

 

On the same night, the WBC Light Heavyweight Champion Adonis Stevenson climbed into the ring in Quebec City, looking to make the ninth defense of his title. His opponent was the unbeaten Oleksandr Gvosdyk, of the Ukraine. Going into the eleventh round, Stevenson lead on points, but a massive assault by the challenger sent Stevenson to the canvas. The ref quickly waived off the fight.

The 41 year old Adonis Stevenson was stretchered from the ring and taken to hospital. Stevenson's promoter Yvon Michel tweeted that Adonis is in a critical condition and in intensive care.

Fighters can lose in controversial circumstances, but it's nothing alongside a death. Here's hoping Adonis "Superman" Stevenson makes a full recovery.

 

Fury's manager was fury-ous with the judge that had Wilder level on points apart from the knock downs

 

Just watched the fight, Fury won that in my book by 2 points.
Superb display of nullifying a tall powerful fighter, I can see him winning a rematch no problem now he has that 12 rounds under his belt he will only improve. Wilder will have to turn it into a brawl to beat him but Fury is too elusive and always sticks to his game plan.

 

Fury did a Klitschko on Wilder. Next time I expect Wilder to be a bit more reckless in order to tag Fury earlier. Fury does not have the power to ko Wilder and Wilder now knows that. I think Fury's will to battle on will lead to him to get hit too many times. He was knocked cold in the 12th round by a right and a left (how he got up I don't know) and if he hadn't gone down he would have got hit again and his career tragically ended. However, as it was he did go down and he got up and finished the stronger; Wilder was running out of steam at that point. That's why I think Wilder will go all out to finish it early next time

 

Boxing for me is about KO your opponent, it’s not about landing a few feeble jabs more than your opponent.


Tyson Fury had a 3 stone weight advantage, yet he still resorts to hiding behind his 6’9 reach and avoiding an actual real fight at all costs.


It was cringeworthy watching Fury land a few jabs and then run away for most of the round, and then celebrate the end of each round like a footballer scoring a goal, because he thinks he’s nicked the round 10-9.


Glad to see that the judges didn’t reward such negative tactics for a change, as plenty of other fighters have been getting away with it for years.


As far as I’m concerned the fighter that lands the most damaging blows, and the fighter who causes the most damage to his opponent is the winner, and that’s why Deontay Wilder won that fight hands down. If you want to point score, stay in the amateur ranks, and focus on the Olympics. As point scoring is not what professional boxing is all about.

Fury did nothing to wilder, apart from tap him with a lot of tame punches.


Fury’s punches as always lacked any power, and even when he did land a few, he ducked away from going for a finish and just continued to hide and try to nick rounds 10-9.


So I’m glad the negative point scoring tactics didn’t get rewarded in the end.

Fury was on his arse twice scrambling to get off the canvas, where as Wilder wasn’t even once shaken by any of Fury’s punches, despite conceding 3 stone to his opponent.

 

You're not on your own there Shergy, there are a **** load of people who think the same way. But if the rules are there to play and to be judged by, then they should be followed. It's unfair if they arn't.

 

Spoken by a person who has never stepped in a ring.

Not everyone can Arturo Gatti or Iron Mike.

A much as I don't like Furys style, he puts himself in the ring to be KO,ed , just like every other boxer that steps into the ring.
It just so happens that nobody yet has the skill or power to finish him off.

Wilder has power but that's all he has. He doesn't gave the required skill to open up more skilled or elusive fighters. He needs to soften them up with stiff jabs and body shots. He can't do any of this as its not in his makeup or skill set.

So before we berate Fury and his lack of gladiatorial instinct, think about what you would you do if you faced Wilder. Would you stand and trader with a banger(even if you didn't gave the same power), or would you use your elusiveness and attempt to stay away from a potential KO.