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Off Topic UK politics and brexit ramblings

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Garlic Klopp, Dec 3, 2018.

  1. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Boris says he's not aiming for no deal but needs no deal on table.

    Guess what?

    No deal is worse deal than withdrawal deal... ergo.... why would eu "do better"



    as for on time brexit... excuse me but the country is already after taking a quarter year hit due to aborted brexit.

    it's late already.


    but my ire is saved people who should have the special place in hell named flipfloppers alley.

    there was a chance to vote on political ground of course to again say no deal off table. the Tories etc lined up and voted it down.... so no deal is back on table plus the we must preserve democracy types are saying suspend parliament and force brexit through deal or no deal.

    this is all a disgrace just as the USA is a disgrace and history will look back and wonder just why did democracy allow such failures
     
    #1601
  2. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with you!
     
    #1602
  3. moreinjuredthanowen

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    Mark Harper, Esther McVey and Andrea Leadsom have been eliminated from the contest.

    ah ha ha ha... leadsom. whatta ****.


    but sadly the Tories are going to do it. it will be Boris in no 10.
     
    #1603
  4. organic red

    organic red Well-Known Member

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    I call her Andrea Loathsome :emoticon-0136-giggl
     
    #1604
  5. moreinjuredthanowen

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    She's an ex-big wig now. Thats career over. If you can't marshall a few supporters even

    please log in to view this image


    This is absolutely over..... If all of the bothers gang up theres no way boris won't be in the top 2. Why the **** some put their name forward at all i do not know.

    The tories have just elected the biggest liar, spiv and whinger in their party.
     
    #1605
  6. Garlic Klopp

    Garlic Klopp Well-Known Member

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    Boris is clear favourite. If the Tories do not deliver Brexit soon they will be very damaged at the next election. If they get Brexit sorted by October deadline then they will have time to recover, unless the aftermath of Brexit is as bad as the lead up to it. Fun and games for the politicians of all parties, whilst the country suffers, but none of them will be bothered as they are all so self interested.
     
    #1606
  7. moreinjuredthanowen

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    they are already goners. they think they can turn it round but they are serious goners. they've lost imo most people under 30 or 35 to leftist greens or labour or lib dem OR the brexit party if the under 30 is a xenophobe. You will perhaps have noted the re-emphasis on the conservative and unionist aspect of said party.

    the reality is for all the bluster and promises theres no means to deliver brexit by october.... october is only a deadline as its the day the EU slams the door shut on the say of macron. We can **** right off any time we choose with no deal if we see fit.

    There's no means unless ALL tories and DUP stand up in the house of commons and vote something through. They wont get anything off the EU so what is boris going to bring to get parliament to pass?

    there will be no leader in no 10 unitl july whatever. call it mid july. then he'll **** off on hols. maybe get one summit with eu at best in and then its into septemebr and voting in the house. he seems to think he's going to start from scratch and do a 2 year deal in 1 month.



    He stuck his big boot in to eu to get a reaction on the 30odd billlion bill/debt that the uk owes for projects actively being finished ... he got the reaction i'm sure he wanted which was the eu to call him a defaulter and i'm sure he got about 20 votes as a result.
     
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  8. moreinjuredthanowen

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    BTW... my issue is that theres 2 more nobodies who should never have entered race and then FOUR, yes FOUR other clowns that are all as bad as johnson. Javid ffs!

    theres no way any of those 4 will drop out and do a deal so they will all drag each other down.

    The reality is by the time its done you'll have a liar and a bumbling charlatan against a slavering brexiteer... johnson v hunt.

    The only possible outcome at this point is no deal.
     
    #1608
  9. Garlic Klopp

    Garlic Klopp Well-Known Member

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    Boris v Corbyn at the next election, God help us if that is what the country has come to. Two complete non entities who have not got a clue. It makes John Major seem like a political heavyweight!
     
    #1609
  10. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    And Peter Mandleson, God!!!!

    Seriously, "the Brexit Party Mk 2" should have gone down the route of the ELP clubs and got a Conservative from Europe. Rajoy and Sarkozy are both available and are head and shoulders above anyone in the Tory party. Missed opportunity, there.
     
    #1610

  11. moreinjuredthanowen

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    for me:

    a) in 1992 we had a scenario where labour SHOULD have won. The feeling was after thatcher etc that albour would win yes? I vaguely remember the time but the labour party had what could only be termed an unelectable leader in kinnock

    b) roll on 5 years... labour sweep the boards with what can now be termed a vacuous twit in Tony blair. A guy who could spin **** and talk a good game and sound tory lite where he needed to "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"

    If there is a general election with the options of Boris for 5 years or corbyn... well... it could easily be a repeat of 1992.

    I cannot fathom how after all this the tories wouldn't implode utterly... but... corbyn is pure poison in some parts.

    I would look at things like this:

    a) SNP should win all seats in scotland (in theory) they wiped out libdems up there but they might make a come back. the scottish brexiteers etc went scottish tory.
    b) lib dems had a big bounce in local elections.... can that carry through? it might. they are seen as the only bastion of remain i suppose.
    c) NI. sort of irrelevant usually but its polarised and showed no signs of that changing much. ther were a few gains for others but very little really so you'd expect the same as now there.
    d) greens got a bit of a bounce. Could they becomes the acceptable face of new socialism? aka the youth votes chosen location.

    I could see a tory government again... the lib dems are not stupid enough i think to prop that up again... elese it'd be turkeys for christmas all over again... so if a minority it'll be tough.

    A lib/SNP/Lab government in theory is possible.... in theory.

    But for me if you stuck a stuffed suit with a posh accent in front of the labour party now..... it'd sweep the next election.
     
    #1611
  12. LuisDiazgamechanger

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    Prince Andrew has just broken one of the royal family's biggest rules, after offering up his two cents on the often-divisive topic of Brexit.
    The Queen's second eldest son committed the gaffe in an ITV interview where he said it would 'make no difference' to entrepreneurs if Britain left the European Union.
    "Businesses could be successful either inside a large internal market, or operating in an even larger external market," he said.
    "There are swings and roundabouts to all these sorts of things."
    A big no no
    Due to their unelected position of power, the royals usually steer clear of voicing their political opinions to the point they don't vote in general elections or referendums such as Brexit.
    This neutral stance means Meghan Markle has remained tight-lipped on her political leanings since joining The Firm - despite once calling Donald Trump "misogynistic...and so vocal about it."[
    The Queen has long kept her political views to herself and has made a habit of never disclosing what she discusses with the UK prime minister during their weekly meeting.
    That's not to say that the rule hasn't been broken before, however.
    Prince Charles has been criticised on numerous occasions for expressing political opinions – most famously with the so-called 'black spider memos.' These are letters written over many years by the Prince of Wales to British government ministers and politicians, and they're made more controversial by the fact that Charles will one day be King.
    【ギャラリー】Trooping the Colour28
    While Prince Andrew's royal status may prove problematic when attempting to voice political opinion - he's not completely unqualified to offer his analysis on Brexit.
    The duke was the UK's trade envoy until 2011, and made these contentious comments during Pitch at Palace, a business summit he started to give a platform to help British start up companies.
    He has also recently made headlines amid rumours of a potential reunion with his ex-wife Sarah Ferguson after the duo's famously-close relationship was thrust back into spotlight following Princess Eugenie's wedding last year.
    【ギャラリー】Andrew and Fergie44
     
    #1612
  13. Garlic Klopp

    Garlic Klopp Well-Known Member

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #1613
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  14. moreinjuredthanowen

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    It seems Johnson has so.many toadies that he's manipulating the votes to ensure its hunt as his rival in the vote off

    Done deal that Johnson is pm
     
    #1614
  15. The Ides of March

    The Ides of March Well-Known Member

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    Let's hope his term as PM lasts as long as Allerdyce's in the England job. I give him 200 days, max.
     
    #1615
  16. moreinjuredthanowen

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    well if it's going to take til end of July to get him the leadership and then a couple weeks to be pm then he has 2.5 months to appare toy negotiate brexit from scratch cos he's said we are out no matter what on Oct 31.

    I can see him gone by Christmas but the turkeys have a vested interest in not having election.

    no deal brexit or a ni only backstop seem.on the face of it his only options.
     
    #1616
  17. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    NI only backstop was what was in the original withdrawal agreement that May negotiated and was voted down in HoC. It will be no deal if we leave on 31 Oct unless BJ gets a very slightly modified version of the agreed WA thru HoC which seems highly unlikely to say the least .
    Though these days it seems the highly unlikely is becoming commonplace.<laugh>
     
    #1617
  18. moreinjuredthanowen

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    The thing is the NI only back stop was as part of what was rejected not by HoC but when all the tory boys like davies resigned and it was the tories who offered the uk wide one to resolve issue and get a deal to vote on.

    There is no possible means to renegotiate withdrawal agreement. The EU in march were staring us down saying so. We blinked and extended. Why on earth would the EU change.

    Its very clear. pay the money, keep the border open blah blah blah.

    the reality for Boris is this: you've a minority government and enough rebels on the remain side that you won't carry no deal. You've the dup to prop you up and no matter WHAT back stop it is they won't vote for it cos they are seeing it as their means to close a border.

    So if Boris has decided that a closed border gets him what he wants the EU will say no
    If Boris shafts the DUP can goes for NI only back stop then parliament won't support as its in nobodies interest.

    I at this point cannot see how He can carry a withdrawal by oct 31 within this parliament as all the same interest that may had to contend with exist.

    SNP - remain. firmly. will vote no
    Labour- want election and power - will vote no
    Libs - remain. will vote no
    Plaid
    etc
    etc

    Unless his part unites and the DUp are bought off (painted into their corner now) theres no way to carry withdrawal.

    Remember this is the self same Boris who said in September 2018 that we should get a canada + deal which is nothing like the withdrawl deal AT ALL.

    Just a note about the issues boris is ignoring.
    1. Ceta is a trade agreement, not a customs union
    Products exported from the UK to the EU would need to be subject to EU customs controls so the EU could ensure they were not originally from other countries that did not have free trade agreements with the EU

    2. No common rule book exists between the EU and Canada
    Canada sells 76% of it products to the US. Because of this, many Canadian standards are similar to or the same as the US’s but different from the EU’s. If Canadian companies want to sell products to the EU, they have to prove those products conform with EU product safety, health and environmental rules. This involves extra bureaucracy, controls and paperwork. If the UK had a Canada-style deal with the EU, UK companies would have to do the same. This would mean no frictionless trade between the UK and the EU. Also, UK companies exporting to the EU would have to comply with EU rules without having any say in setting them.

    3. A Canada-style agreement would mean a hard border with Northern Ireland
    Border controls would be required between the UK and EU to check compliance – including between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This would be a violation of the Good Friday agreement – and would disrupt two decades of hard-won peace on the island of Ireland.

    4. Ceta does not cover services
    The UK is a 80% service economy, comprising arts, entertainment, recreation, transport, storage, IT, finance, insurance, professional, scientific and technical services. So a Canada-style deal that covers goods alone would not solve the problems of Brexit.

    5. Ceta does not allow the free movement of people
    aka the 4 freedoms are broken so this is not a deal EU will do.


    If boris tries on Canada plus 3 months from no deal deadline then no deal will be outcome. He will close the NI border which will please the DUP no end but start a new conflict.
     
    #1618
  19. Solid_Air 2

    Solid_Air 2 Well-Known Member

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    think the NI only backstop was in first vote on 15th Jan and DUP voted against and during that debate
    The DUP’s Brexit spokesman, Sammy Wilson, on why the party is not backing the deal:

    We fought a terrorist campaign to stay part of the United Kingdom. We are not going to allow bureaucrats in Brussels to separate us from the rest of the United Kingdom.

    On NI imo at least as big a threat to peace in NI is the failure of Stormont .
    On Boris he will say anything that he thinks will get him thru what is directly in front of him and truth is just an optional extra.
     
    #1619
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  20. moreinjuredthanowen

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    https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/northern-ireland-backstop

    In summer 2018, the UK Government published proposals for a temporary UK-wide customs union with the EU and, as part of its suggestions for the future relationship, a ‘common rulebook’ on goods regulations. Effectively the UK argued that the backstop was unnecessary as the future relationship would ensure there was no need for a hard border. However, the EU rejected the time-limited proposal and the idea of a UK-wide backstop, as it would prejudge the outcome of detailed future relationship negotiations.

    Over summer 2018 discussions continued on the backstop, with Michel Barnier, the EU's Chief Negotiator for Brexit, attempting to 'de-dramatise' the issue by making clear that the EU’s proposal would require ‘only technical controls on goods’. The EU also sought to limit the categories of goods facing checks, building on existing animal health checks that take place between the two islands, rather than creating lots of new checks.

    But there was no concrete progress in mid-2018. The EU’s priorities were reasserted at the Salzburg summit in September 2018, when European Council President Donald Tusk said “there will be no Withdrawal Agreement without a solid, operational and legally binding Irish backstop”.

    The two sides reached agreement on a draft Withdrawal Agreement in November 2018, which included a Protocol on Northern Ireland setting out the backstop. The EU made a significant concession in granting a UK-wide ‘single customs territory’, avoiding the need for customs checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, while the requirement for regulatory alignment is limited to Northern Ireland.

    I hope that clarifies.

    the reason why the ERG are up in arms or were is that May pushed this Uk wide backstop as her solution and the EU agreed to it.. read above. the uk wide back stop is may's solution to the DUP's issue but the DUP then still were not hppy as it keeps border open (IMO)

    At no point has anyone voted on a ni only backstop.
     
    #1620

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