Off Topic Other Stuff (anything you want to share)

Having stood as a lad in 42,000 (ish) at Home Park for an FA Cup tie v Everton, I'm not sorry that's all changed. But the issue is boiling up now with a club trying to close down pockets of standing in inappropriate areas.

 

I have to say I liked standing at football. Getting older now so it isn't as attractive perhaps as it was. However, that was in the standing area and I chose to go there. I don't go along with people standing when it's all seating. If you went to a theatre or cinema and stood in front of these people you would probably end up in a fight. Not suitable at those venues then not suitable in an all seated football ground either. I don't think having a standing area would shut these people up either. They would still argue the old chestnut of "I've always watched from here" excuse. However I do think there should be part of a ground for standing. That's one for the FA and Government though and I accept clubs don't have the say on it.

As for the homophobic and racist chanting well people know perfectly well what is acceptable in public today. I am not easily offended and anyone who lived any life on a messdeck in years gone by would not be either. I've heard it all before on both topics. And worse. I have to say that in a number of cases it is just thought to be banter by those that do it and is not necessarily meant to be nasty as such. But, they know it isn't accepted and should grow up and stop. On the other hand there are a number of people who actually look to be offended and will make as much capital out of it as they can wring. They will always win these days and the perpetrators should also know this already. The other kind which is the real hate stuff of people looking to offend deliberately then I have no truck with. A joke is one thing no matter how poor taste it may be these days but spite is another entirely. If I heard it I would challenge it but I can't say any of that goes on around my part of the Lyndhurst. I agree with notdistant with one thing though. The hooligan types are trying to make a comeback and I do hope it isn't allowed to happen.

 

1.....Illusions of Grandeur comes to mind when reading and viewing the Lib/Dems Conference....Jo Swinson must be taking something illegal to be on such a high and her party were partying around as if they had been on a firms outing to Margate and Dreamland and had stopped the coach on the way home at some local watering hole to get well tanked up and forget the sunburn that they had got on the beach.

OK so she has just been elected leader of the minority party who can just about put together a football team together of MP's for a kick-around on the beach.
She says that when she becomes PM...she will revoke Brexit on the first day in Downing Street....PAFC have more chance of winning the Premiership and then the European Cup then Swinson has of forming a Government.

The Lib/Dems are suppose to be a democratic party....but not when it wants to disregard 17.4 million voters who voted to leave this Federal group of States heading for being the United States of Europe controlled from Brussels through Germany and France.

A General Election might bring her some gained seats but they will still be smaller than the SNP and will fail to overthrow the will of the majority of people.


2.....Xavier Bettel the Luxembourg Prime Minister has upset his masters in Germany and France by insulting the UK by using an anti-Brexit demonstration just yards from the podiums that he and Boris Johnson would use to speak from....the UK delegation asked that the podiums were move indoors so that Boris Johnson and Xavier Bettel could talk in more neutral environment....But Bettel refused and went on an anti-UK rant with an empty podium next to him.

Norbert Rottgen, an ally of Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, and chairman of the German foreign affairs committee, wrote on twitter: "Xavier Bettel's speech yesterday did not serve the European cause, His public venting ignored that a deal is still in everyone's interest. Even without a deal there will be a post-Brexit life, which means that right now everyone needs to behave in a way that avoids animosity".

Senior diplomatic sources told the 'Daily Telegraph' that it was never acceptable to embarrass a country such as the UK and that a solution should have been found to hold the press conference elsewhere.

EU sources expressed doubts that a similar farce would have happened in Paris or Berlin. "I think leaders of bigger countries might not of chosen the Brexit negotiations as a platform to raise their own profile," one EU diplomat in Brussels said.

Another EU source warned that the outcry could actually help Mr Johnson domestically.
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Once again, here's that Referendum result:



Hardly a material victory given the huge implications and that it was based in large part on lies, dirty money, internet manipulation of electoral regulations, made up figures and racism. It's hardly something that needs to be slavishly adhered to.

In any event, as Swinson said, they are standing on a policy of rescinding Article 50 and if they were to be elected, they would have new mandate that over-rides the now out-of-date referendum.

A lot of ex Conservative voters like me will vote for the Lib Dems and provided they run a decent campaign, they'll have more seats than they have now. Labour's policy for this week is that they'll hold another referendum and that may take some C1 and C2 voters from the Tories in the other direction. The nationalist parties are all Remain and so aren't going to loose ground for sure.

The most likely outcome is a hung parliament with a Remain majority i.e. exactly where we are now.

He's already fled from the House of Commons after some disastrous performances and if Boris Johnson is now running so scared he doesn't have the bottle to face a pre-arranged press conference, but wants to hide inside, God knows how he'll fare in a General Election campaign.

 

Surely got you figures wrong there notDistant.....and those that don't vote have no say and cannot be assumed to have voted for or against.

Remain voters...16 million ( 35%)....which means 30 million (65 %) didn't vote remain.... out of a total of 46 million.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resul..._Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum

https://www.electoralcommission.org...-referendum/results-and-turnout-eu-referendum

Do you think there'd be a majority for it now?

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...u-without-a-deal-which-would-you-support-2-3/

 

As I said you've got your figures wrong...check what you've written.

Yes I believe the country would still vote out....given a boost this week by the Luxembourg prat......and the referendum denier Jo Swinson (what is she on).

Like or hate Boris Johnson...people have noticed that he is the only person in three years that is challenging the EU's red lines and are willing him to make a challenge that is long overdue.

 

I make it 29 million who didn't vote for Brexit using your mantra plym. I heard a Boris toady say on radio this morning that the UK voted out. No they didn't. 17 million did the rest didn't vote for it. I didn't so who the feck does he think he is speaking for me. Boris ran away from the crowd yesterday. He thinks he can just bully his way to a conclusion and he is finding out that he can't. As for a general election and the results well that remains to be seen. If as I suspect the Lib Dems do a lot better at the next one I think they may be a smaller party still but there won't be a majority. They will not do business with the Tories and therefore would team up with Jeremy and Co. to form a government. You and your out voters did that. Labour will give the people a further vote and lets see what the outcome of that is. If that goes how I suspect it might then I wonder how receptive the current out voters will be to that result.

 

BUT sensible your using the same mantra aren't you....as I said 30 million didn't vote to remain.

The Lib/Dems have definately said that they will NOT link up with either Tory or Labour.....that only leaves the SNP......that would be shooting themselves in the foot if that happened.....I don't expect them to ever get more than 50/60 seats whatever they promise the voters.

 

Yes of course I am but you cannot call your percentage a majority of the Country either which is something the out brigade do regularly. It is a fact that neither side had a majority of the Country backing it.

And you believe them if it meant a second Referendum? I mean Politicians never tell porkies do they. Just ask Boris about his bus. I would add that Boris keeps on about negotiations when the EU keep on about there not actually being any because no discussions or requests in substance are being made. You of course would believe they are lying because it suits your purpose. You need to face up to the fact that Boris doesn't actually have a plan. Boris is in this for Boris and nobody else. He will say anything to try to make himself look like a serious politician and statesman. Trouble is he is a man with a huge ego and no substance at all. He is being found out and he is biting and scratching for all he is worth. You cling to your opinion that the Country would repeat the first vote but I reckon you are wrong by a country mile. If you truly believe it why are you so determined there shouldn't be another vote after all you surely can't lose.

 

In a free country it is not illegal not to vote....so the result is decided by who gets the most votes from those that cast their opinion by crossing the box that they favour.

When was the last time a party/result was decided in this country by someone getting 50%+ 1 vote of those eligible to vote...I'll tell you NEVER.

You'll have to move to somewhere like N Korea to obtain such a vote.

By not accepting the result of the referendum and going down that road again completely undermines the value of having one in the first place....do we keep having more referendums until Parliament wins one so that they can throw out the peoples choice....that sounds like the start of a dictatorship....Parliament have failed the people and will never come out of their party trenches and obey the will of the people.....17.4 million people decided to leave by the rules that we are governed by....until we change the rules than that is the best we can do.

Proportional representation is how most countries decide their elections....how can any country be proud of a system that had 4 million people vote for a party that ended up with no representation in Parliament.

We have a lot to learn in this country about compromise...where parties actually govern together....we tried it for awhile recently Cons/LibDems....I didn't like either party but I had to lump it.

MP's have never done anything but look after their jobs and do what their party whips tell them....how many MP's want to remain whilst their constituencies voted to leave......we need a general election not another referendum.

 

The point is Plym that less than 40% voted for this and given the enormity of the decision, bringing with it as it will substantial damage to the British economy and pressures for the break-up of the Union amongst other horrors, that just isn't a mandate.

MP's are not elected as delegates to vote to a pre-determined schedule, they are representatives put there to vote according to their consciences. That's what they are doing. The Executive answers to Parliament, not the other way around. Referendums are an abomination and if they are to be used for the most significant of issues, should require a very significant majority to change the status quo. I'd suggest 2/3 of the eligible vote. This country abolished slavery and the death penalty and introduced universal suffrage and gay rights without a referendum so it's only pandering to a extremist minority in the ERG group of Conservative MP's that led to this one.

 

Ok only 40% voted for it...but on the other hand only 38% voted to remain...also means 22% couldn't be bothered either way.

 

A Trade Union cannot call a strike with a ballot of members who vote at 50% + 1. There is one example for you. A General Election cannot be called with only 50% + 1 of the MPs voting for it. That's two. There are others. Why was there a second Referendum on membership of the EU? We voted in the 70's to enter. There you go that's three.

 

Oh dear, Boris is in the proverbial yet again. Poor man he hasn't got long left in his political life has he. I also listened to Jeremy's speach to Conference this afternoon. Yes I was bored. He is going to have to raise an awful lot of taxes to pay for his promises. Everything is free it seems. I think I might join the Greens and make my life completely that colour.

 

It was a shocker from Corbyn wasn't it? Vast amounts of our money to be spent on all sorts of carp. Four-day weeks, trade union representation in all workplaces, like it or not. Their Brexit proposition is that they'll negotiate a deal that's eluded everyone else and then have a referendum in which they won't actually endorse that deal but will adopt a neutral stance. What? Say that again Jeremy?

Unfortunately, I bet hardly anyone noticed it in the sh1tstorm surrounding our clown of a Prime Minister.

Having said prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit (despite the fact all previous prorogations have been for 5 days or less and this one was for 5 weeks), he's now said that the Supreme Court judgement will obstruct Brexit. Can anyone square those two statements?

There's a gaping void between the Corbynist Hard Left and the neo-facist rump of what once was the Conservative Party and the Farage-ists beyond them in real facist territory. All because of that bloody referendum.

This is all being portrayed as the Elite v the People. Well, I'm very firmly on the side of the Elite. Far better the country's run by people who actually have some idea what they are doing.

 

Not being one of the Elite there is however a couple of things I've learned over my lifetime. The first one is you need an Elite to some extent to create wealth obviously for themselves but for others on the way. Not wealth in the sense of mega rich like a lot of the Elite are but in jobs with decent enough pay to cover a reasonable way of life for the rest. Without creators the rest have little or nothing. The other one is that if you tax the rich until they squeak they simply move their money to somewhere else and stop paying any at all. The upshot is you collect less money than you would have in the long run.

Don't get me wrong I do not approve of individuals being able to earn millions times more than everyone else and owning 80% of the wealth in the World. There is a limit in my mind about how high the Elite soar but an acceptance that some have to be richer than others to give the incentive to create in the first place. Difficult balance to strike but I'm sure there is one there somewhere. I can applaud somebody like Jeremy for their ideals to combat unfairness but their solution to simply take from one and give to another will just never work. Within a short time those currently without would have wasted most of what they were given and the Elite would have devised a method to get all of it back.

 

Until the system is changed by the Conservative Party, a new party leader... between elections... is elected by a few thousand doddering old biddies/gin swillers from the safety of their Party Branches and of course that means that if that party is in government that person automatically becomes PM.

So 17.4 million voters are in the hands of this new PM to achieve the result that they voted for.... of the 2016 referendum like it or not.....so many Leavers are watching proceedings at the moment from behind eye covered by fingers or even from behind their settees.

All that Leavers want, was the out vote to be honoured by Parliament.....and that means a clean break from the EU and all its institutions.....no single issue being controlled in any way other than through are own Parliament and Judiciary. That sounded quite simple in post referendum 2016....until PM May (a remainer) over two years plus came up with a deal with the EU that couldn't be seen in any way other than an agreement that tied us to the EU and its institutions for the forseeable future without any voting say in how it was run....Parliament agreed that it wasn't acceptable and kept voting against it....and PM May resigned.

The remain lobby under the guise of needing a deal and not walking away without one have slowly taken over..... their desire to stay in the EU looks more and more like the end result that will be achieved.....a deal with the EU with good results is their only fear now of not achieving revoking article 50.

So even if Boris Johnson achieved a fantastic deal in the coming weeks.... achieving a clean break and encouraging talks on trade deals etc....there is not the numbers anymore in Parliament to achieve a majority to pass a vote to accept it.

The EU Parliament's single biggest party is....yes you've guessed it is ....THE BREXIT PARTY.....how the EU wishes it gave us everything we want just to get rid of us.....in our own Parliament, who can guess what parties will be in control.....a hung Parliament looks inevitable....and the healing process will take many years.....the trust of the voters will take years to recover as well with many saying that they will never vote again.....and never never mention the word referendum again because it will just remind them of hollowed promises not achieved.

 

The problem is Plym that a clean break in governance means a clean break for trade & industry too, which will do huge economic harm. Brexit voters just don't seem to get that, largely because they are being fed a diet of lies and misdirection from the Leave camp.

I see that following a meeting with the automotive and retail sectors earlier this week, our No Deal Planner Gove said they'd told him their preparations were complete. Reassuring eh? No. because right afterwards the business people said, yes, we've done all we can (so preparations are complete) but also that you should expect job losses and food shortages. If that's not misdirection (or stupidity), I don't know what is.

 

Project fear still trying to undermine Brexit notDistant....Remainers not interested in leaving with a deal....they're just using it underhandedly to stop it happening at all....if that happens you'll find it will be a different EU that you stay with....and when they switch to majority voting you'll be part of a federal group of states which will become the United States of Europe having its own military etc......light years from what we joined....a Common Market.