Barnes has said he had racial verbal abuse from Liverpool fans when he played for Watford but it never happened once he signed for Liverpool. He spoke about Everton fans throwing bananas at him and said "if I had played for Everton against Liverpool then maybe the Liverpool fans would have racially abused me." Most clubs had some racist fans back then, a lot still do.
I'm aware of that. Sorry luv, - I wasn't referring to you bringing it up, but Carragher - as I mentioned later in that post.
Yeah I was wondering what his motivation for bringing it up was, it's certainly something that the club doesn't want dragging up. Yes he was in the same studio as Evra but it didn't need discussing in public as Carra is like everyone and he doesn't actually know what happened between them. If he felt strongly he could have done it in private.
Look I am sure you are right about other clubs fans giving him more abuse. I am just saying that our fans were not much better in their attitude to black players. I recollect myself fellow fans at work openly saying that we shouldn't be signing a black player and that signing would be "tainting " the good name of the club. What I am saying is that our club at the time was no better than many others on this issue. For those with time , I've clipped an extract of Barnes article in wikipedia: Barnes, in his early years at Liverpool, had to deal with racist abuse from opposing supporters and far-right groups – a photograph was once taken of Barnes, in full Liverpool kit and mid-match, casually backheeling away a banana which had been hurled at him during a derby match with Everton at Goodison Park.[20] He also said Liverpool supporters had written to him not to join the club, as well as being abused by opposition players. On occasion he overheard a teammate make a racist remark towards other black players in opposition teams. At one of his first appearances at Anfield, Barnes said that the tea lady had, intentionally or unintentionally, served tea to all the players in the lounge except him, and he made a joke about it by asking light heartedly, "Is it because I'm black?"[21] At the time, he was only the second black player to play for Liverpool, and the first to have been a regular player. The only other black player to have appeared for Liverpool at the time was Howard Gayle, who played five games for the Reds at the beginning of the 1980s.
We signed Suarez knowing full well what we were getting - a player who would do anything to win. The deliberate handball in the WC, the biting incident with Bakkal. He played with passion and you literally never knew what he was going to do. The alleged racist remarks against another player who had already had a previous false claim dismissed threw something else into the mix. We knew Suarez was capable of it but was he culpable? As we waited for the outcome, us fans knew it could go either way due to knowing his character so well. The lip readers found no evidence that he had used racist language, which is pretty strong evidence yet ....... we know what happened and really don't need to debate the subject again. Whoever decided to get the tshirts made, and Carragher doesn't tell us who that was as he probably doesn't know, the players were instructed to wear them. We don't know if any of the players believed Suarez was innocent.
My views. Suarez is a twat Suarez almost certainly said something racially inappropriate. Evra exaggerated like crazy. Evra's story he told the ref was different to what he told the assistant coach, to what he told after the game. The fish got bigger and bigger. Evra has been known to exaggerate at other times too. That said, yeah, I fully believe Suarez made some comments about race that was inappropriate and deserved disciplinary action. Even if Suarez's story about negrito being a friendly word in Spanish is true, and that is all he said, he had lived in Western Europe long enough to fully know how what he was saying would be taken. I call bs on him saying something innocent. He knew he was taunting Evra based on race. Was the lengthy ban necessary? Well, he made a racist comment and there should be no forgiving that, something had to be done. That said, is it right to give a 8 match ban for being a racist twat and only a 3 match ban if you punch someone? Ehhhh... I don't know about that. The FA wanted to make an example out of Suarez, and they did. In reality they could have made it much worse on him.
Later? We knew what Suarez was from his time at Ajax. That wasn't the point. He was bang-to-rights the day the FA commission opened - they said the evidence was 'subjective', i.e. did Evra feel he was abused, not whether Suarez intended it. As he admitted to saying the word (once) the outcome was that he should, on precedence, have been banned for four games after apologising (which people seem to forget that he did). That the ante was upped to eight games because Evra, who repeatedly changed his story about what he was called, how many times he was called it, and why he couldn't even utter the word he was called (despite being filmed on YouTube screaming it several times earlier in his career) was the reason for the umbrage and outrage at the sanction. And recently, in one of the broadsheets, I saw a review by a one-eyed, biased journalist claiming the normal trope that all Liverpool supporters suddenly became experts in Latin-American Spanish, the nuances of criminal v civil law, etc... and how dare we try to say he didn't mean to offend when it was in the middle of an argument. Well, in that context, the only instance of any racial abuse recorded in that goalmouth was Evra starting an exchange by telling Suarez, in Spanish, to go and **** his sister's shell. Yet this was preposterously dismissed by the commission as an 'Exclamation' . This, of course, being the natural thing a Frenchman would exclaim in such a situation, not 'Zut alors!', or' Merde!', or 'Mon Dieu!" Yeah, no way could Suarez have been sincere in his explanation because they were arguing (or Evra was, anyway), whilst Evra was believed that his aggression was just an exclamation, despite that, and not Suarez saying that word 'ten times', being the only thing recorded by the several cameras and microphones around that goalbox. The FA wanted a head-on-a-stick as they couldn't get Terry until his trial was over. Had there been any objective evidence that Suarez did what Evra said he did, he should have been in a criminal court, not an FA tribunal, but the fact that he wasn't tells you everything about the value of the evidence. Until somebody produces any more evidence, I'll never believe that Suarez did anything more than he readily admitted to, and for that he should have been rightly punished and banned, because ignorance is no defence. But we knew what he was at the time, and his subsequent behaviours haven't shocked me one jot: the man is a vile, win-at-all-costs bilge rat . Just like Evra, who had been sent out on a mission to nobble Suarez by that other win-at-all-costs bilge rat, Ferguson, and had been losing in that endeavour all game long, and was trying his best to provoke Suarez into a violent response . But it was a political show 'trial', with the outcome decided before the hearing was even started. The T-shirts were just ****ing embarrassing, especially after FSG shouted the odds about going to the CIS, then shat themselves when certain media outlets said they'd attack their whole brand if they did. And Evra is now the poster boy of victimhood and model, professional behaviour. Pass the sickbag.
I know from the BBC 606 days that you and I have remained consistent in our views on Suarez in general and the Evra case in particular. What do you think of Carragher coming out with this apology now?
Obviously connected to his Sky rehabilitation after the spitting thing. Now that IS something he should have been locked up for, and I said so at the time. How he's still on public television after that is beyond me. Disgusting twat.
If you are who I think you are you have been consistent throughout and never wavered in your condemnation of the FA. Evra and the FA both saw an opportunity to pursue their (different) agendas and took it. we are agreed that the wearing of the t-shirt was just a terrible embarrassment which the club would want to forget . For many it was LFC sticking 2 fingers to the fight against racism. Carra said sorry. In these more enlightened times, should the club formally apologise?
It pisses me off what the FA get away with. Can you imagine, in any other job, if someone accused you of making a racist comment, and you denied it, and they witheld your pay or fined you, without ANY evidence or witnesses whatsoever, other than the accuser's testimony, which changed numerous times, you could take them to the ****ing cleaners in court!! And charging and banning someone for racial abuse once a court of law has equitted them for the same alleged offence, is a complete ****ing mockery of justice. Its like "The law has found you innocent, but racism is bad mmmkay, so evidence is not required, you are banned and fined". Again, can you imagine being fired from your job for stealing, then going to court, being found innocent of stealing whatever it was, then your employer saying, well, we are going to withhold your pay anyway, because......"
Of course it's Donga. No, not until the FA and Evra apologise for running a ludicrous kangaroo court. And the club (and Suarez) have apologised for what he admitted to - he hasn't done anything else. I think the club should apologise to us for not going through with their threat to take this to the CIS.
Funnily enough, you can. I once defended a clerk, as his union rep, who'd been - rightly- found not guilty in a crown court for theft, but for whom the company then tried to still dismiss for 'False accounting'. He ended up in a telephone enquiry bureau away from money, even though he had been found innocent in a court. That said, four years later when they let him back in an office handling cash, he was caught bang-to-rights thieving and tried to blame all his colleagues. Went to prison. Er, this doesn't really help my case, does it?
You or I don't work in a very public setting. I don't think the FA handled this correctly. (And neither did LFC)... But... The FA is a very visible organization and there would be huge PR backlash if they didn't do something. There could also be a huge financial backlash if sponsors dropped and boycots started against the FA. Doesn't make what happened right, but explains WHY they were willing to slap the book down with little evidence. Honestly, even what Suarez admitted to though is reason enough for some action... Maybe not the extreme action taken, but it warrented action by itself
