Match Day Thread Vs Genk (A)

we lost to red star last year ...

 

yep and everyone got slated so by the same token lets not get to carried away as though it was promising the opposition has to be taken into account .

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I studied race as part of my Masters degree and my dissertation was centred on racism. That doesn't make me an expert by any stretch but it gives me, as a white person, a far different outlook from what I had before.

I think sometimes people are offended on behalf of others when they don't need to be. Equally, when people need defending, everyone remains quiet. We don't always respond in the right way in a given situation. Stereotyping of any kind rarely helps as it very often perpetuates myths.

Although I now have a different view on race and racism, I will never be able to see things from a black person's point of view because I'm not black. I think the banner last night was offensive because of the nudity, not the race; you can't display something like that in public. But not being black, I really don't know whether it could be considered racist. Which is why your opinion is valuable.

 

We definitely shouldn’t be getting carried away but it was an encouraging performance given the midfield trio had hardly played together before, and with Lovren and Milner in defence.

Second half was different gravy though. Excellent football.

 

oh don't get me wrong it definitely showed some promise but better teams would have exploited the space it left more effectively .
The advantages are fairly obvious though from AOC being just about our only MF capable of scoring from outside the box and the control of the ball thru Keita plus both run effectively with the ball .

 

It will need tweaking before we ever see it as the go to midfield. Hence I think if we replace Ox with Gini, then we maintain the defensive shape but keep most of the attacking g threat.

 

Having said that, I maintain that the midfield wasn’t that bad defensively. Genk’s chances mostly came from long balls over the top, most of which were offside. Midfield can’t do much about that, it’s on the front line to press that area.

 

i agree that at first probably only 1 starts and atm the most likely to be jettisoned is henderson .

 

Henderson had a good season overall and especially towards the end of the season but he's reverted back to being useful and nothing more and is back to being a squad player, players like him are needed but we can't play him every week as it slows the tempo and he doesn't offer enough going forward or in defence.

 

Thought he had been fine this season but the last 3 games he has been really poor and needs time out of team though think it likely he'll start at the weekend .Though with JK you can never be sure .

 

agree - he’s a good squad player to have, and I’m sure he’s a great captain off the pitch but his place in the starting lineup up is really under threat.

the team is evolving and we’re getting better. It’s what led us to upgrading Karius and Migs with Allison, VVD and Matip for skrtel, Lovren, fabhinho for Hendo, the front 3 for Origi / Lallana / and whoever.

 

I agree with a lot with whats been said not saying which bits but what constantly intrigues me is (and this can be seen over and over through society) is the debate is currently in swing on two threads and we are now discussing stereotypes.
Anyone been over to the jokes thread ? Phenomenal amount of stereotyping in there, most notably in terms of current trends those ‘jokes’ about the wife.
Either way very interesting to read all the differing viewpoints

 

Stereotyping is used in two ways. The first is to gain laughs ie. Mother in law jokes. The second way is designed to be more harmful or deliberately cause offense ie. refugees......black people..... Sometimes there's a crossover. The bone of contention is, who gets to say whether it's meant as a joke or a statement of 'fact'?

 

Yep, nail on head there imho, It is that line which causes the issue which is why i believe currently they are removing context because anyone can get offend.
There is a fantastic Australian comedian called steve hughes (?) who does a massive bit on this.
He was the first (to my knowledge) to use the, i am offended that your offended, now what you gonna do bit.
I have no idea how they solve this as it is currently so messy and convoluted.

 

When it comes to Henderson and Wijnaldum, they are told not to go too high up but cover the full backs. What Keita and Ox offer us is the ability to play between the defensive block due to the positions they take. The first two goals would never happen with the first combination. I am happy it gives us another way of winning games. It is the reason we can keep up with City.

I suggest you look at the positions taken by Keita and Ox and what that means in that set up. TAA and Robbo don't have to commit too much thus you will see a different defensive shape. I also support the view that whilst long balls caused us problems, they were offside for most of those chances. It is the linesman that kept his flag down as per VAR rules.

Special mention to Mane though. He has really elevated his game and is now dropping deep and doing some brilliant combination plays. He has become so lethal that it is now pointless trying to stop just Salah. His finishing has elevated to elite to add to the graft movement and pace that he brings.

 

i think Gini is the one who sits back but since Hendo moved into 8, he plays as the more advanced midfielder. So I don’t think he’s told to sit and not attack because he does get forward, and occupies the right flank. The issue is that he’s simply not good enough going forward.

I agree that this does give us another way to attack, and reduces the reliance on full backs to create.

Encouraging!

 

I was worried when Robertson came off but apart from being slower, Milner filled the role seamlessly. Would really like a new contract for him, he's still a valuable player for us.

 

You make some good points. I think in the main stereotyping is not good and shouldn't be done. So why do it? How do we know how Origi would feel about this?

Although it is a generalisation it has been said that if the person who is the target of a joke, phrase or banner thinks it is racist then it is.

Again I have to say that for once the club was proactive and condemned the banner before others. UEFA will have a say and we are going to have to accept any punishment coming our way.

 

Bit harsh on AOC

 

I take offence at that.