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The 2019-2020 season.

Discussion in 'Norwich City' started by Walsh.i.am, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    If you look closely there is a Finland flag and he scored a couple the other day for his country. <cheers>

    If we ever get a penalty again I reckon he'll manage another goal in the green and yellow.
     
    #1181
  2. Farked19

    Farked19 Well-Known Member

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    At least if it happens we won't have spent a fortune getting it. West Ham currently sit one place and three points above us. That's worked out well hasn't it Karren?
     
    #1182
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  3. JM Fan

    JM Fan Well-Known Member

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    <laugh>
     
    #1183
  4. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    If it remains thus, she still gets the last laugh. So come on boys beat the ammers

    Bah!
     
    #1184
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  5. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    #1185
  6. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    #1186
  7. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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    WTF?? :emoticon-0112-wonde

    Not sure what to make of this odd column?
    No one's ever 'laughed' at Sir Beny on this forum, I'm fairly sure?
    https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/david-hannant-norwich-city-column-2711-dennis-srbeny-1-6397645
     
    #1187
  8. Walsh.i.am

    Walsh.i.am Well-Known Member
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  9. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    I haven't witnessed it with Srbeny, but it wouldn't surprise me. RvW was a bit of a different case but when he had one of his rare outings for us in the cup against Rotherham. We were singing just as described; 'Ricky scores, we're on the pitch'. No one followed through with the threat when he did score of course.
    Was it harmless fun? Was it malicious? I guess depends on where you stand on nannystateism. In RvW or Srbeny's case I think it's fans having a bit of fun. I maybe think naively that actually us fans hold genuine affection for these guys (OK maybe not Ricky by the end) but Wilbrahimovic certainly, Dennis probably. And rather than laughing at them, we're genuinely very pleased for City and the player too. With the laughter a sense of 'well stone me I didn't see that comin' bor'.
    If Hannant would like to prescribe just how we should celebrate such goals then I'm sure we're all ears.

    Bah!
     
    #1189
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  10. DUNCAN DONUTS

    DUNCAN DONUTS SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR

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    I don't think Docherty minded being called the Ginger Pele , he started off as a striker and we bought him from Spurs to play centre back.
    He still scored a few notably against Colchester away which was both sublime and hilarious .

    Great camera work

     
    #1190

  11. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    I remember Doc scoring at Newcastle to earn us a 2-2 draw.
     
    #1191
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  12. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    After the draw yesterday we now have 5 games left to the halfway point of the season. With 11 points, we'd need another 8 points from those 5 to get back on track for survival at 38 points. Our next 2 games at Southampton and home to Sheffield could be crucial. Much will depend on keeping our form from the last two matches going.

    Zimbo has played himself back into the squad and we have a settled defence at last. Amadou made a good debut at DM and much will depend on how he progresses. Add to that the tweak in tactics which allows us to mix working the ball forward with crisp passing with more intermediate passes over the midfield for the attacking players to run on to. This has given us a new effectiveness by being less predictable while still maintaining our defensive shape. Hopefully that will carry on now and we can continue to pick up points on a more regular basis.

    Detailed analysis of Amadou's performance in the latest 'player watch':

    https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/norwich-2-arsenal-2-ibrahim-amadou-1-6403678
     
    #1192
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
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  13. Nigel Stephens

    Nigel Stephens Active Member

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    The Southampton game is very much a 6 pointer and I think it may help the fact that we are away. For some reason there is possibly less pressure away from CR and that makes life more difficult for the Saints as their home fans will expect a win and nothing less. in the wake of another massive game against Watford they will be expecting the same again for sure. The Sheffield United game will be a massive one as they have proven to be very hard to beat and risen well to the Premiership challenge. I think the Leicester game could be very difficult and all in all I cannot see us reaching the 19 points at half time. My hope is that we have a few games against the hardened teams at home in the second half (Burnley, Brighton, Palace, West Ham and Bournemouth) and that may yield a better tally on the run-in.
     
    #1193
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  14. General Melchett

    General Melchett Well-Known Member

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    I noted that Amadou not only played a good disruptive game like Tettey, but also shares his shooting boots!

    Bah!
     
    #1194
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  15. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    "Passing wasn't up to standard during the first 20 minutes" (Dave Freezer)
    Yet, as I mentioned on the Match thread, he outscored everyone else on the pitch for pass accuracy (95%), including Mesut Ozil and Granit Xhaka. He'd have been 100% accurate if he'd avoided his two misplaced passes! I think this shows how easy it is to let your eyes determine your opinion, rather than basing judgement on all the evidence available, including statistical.
     
    #1195
  16. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Very true, Robbie, which is why I always look for objective sources, especially those like WhoScored, which are based on a detailed record of each player's performance. Having said that, those calculations are biased towards goals scored as any player scoring, regardless of the quality of the goal, has his score raised by a whole point and any player judged to have made a error has his score dropped by a similar amount. Goals and errors are important for sure, but they can distort the evaluation of a player's overall performance and factors like Zimbo's reading of the game and positioning aren't included.

    As you point out, the PS% is one of the more reliable indicators, but even that depends on how ambitious the passes a player is making are. My own perception was that Amadou grew into the game as it went on, and I'm wanting to see how much that develops as he gets more games at DM. My perception was that he was more creative than Trybull, but it could be they were sharing the DM role and that gave Amadou licence to move forward more. DF's tactical tweaks can be very subtle.
     
    #1196
  17. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the limitations of the data always have to be borne in mind. Which is pertinent incidentally to your assessment of Trybull v Arsenal, because his positioning and closing off of space weren't included in his rating any more than Zimmermann's!

    And while discussing Trybull, yes, my impression was that he and Amadou were very much sharing the DM role, with each staying back to cover when the other went forward. My only comment would be that I think you underestimate Trybull's contribution to our offensive play. A look at his heatmap shows that he was a quite significant contributor to our left-sided offensive play, in particular to our well-practiced gambit of creating overloads on that side.
     
    #1197
  18. robbieBB

    robbieBB Well-Known Member

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    As a footnote to the above post, it is clear that football analytics has advanced way beyond what even the most informative of stat sites such as WhoScored and StatsZone make available to you and me. Players don't wear GPS tracking harnesses simply to assess how far they've run in a game and how many sprints they've done at what speeds. As the authors of The Numbers Game predicted back in 2013, simple arithmetic (i.e. totting up "significant" player & ball actions) has given way to geometry and network theory (i.e. "to the actions of players away from the ball, the clusters they form, the spaces they enclose, and the way the ball and information move about the network they compose"). Everyone is now familiar with the simplest manifestation of this development, passing triangles, and can appreciate their significance. But that's about the limit of what most of us have either the understanding or the data to grasp. It takes real determination to take your seat in the Barclay and then purposely keep your eyes skinned on everything but the ball! <laugh>
     
    #1198
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  19. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    Trybull may be one of those players who does a lot off the ball (like closing down space). I was watching the match on Sky so was more limited in my perception of the total shape unless the cameras took a wider view. I'm actually a Trybull fan, but my impression was that Saturday wasn't one of his best performances. It could be that he's doing the simpler things so McLean and others can perform. If so it's certainly working and I'd be loathe to make changes for Southampton unless there's a more pressing reason. We need some continuity now to keep acquiring points.
     
    #1199
  20. RiverEndRick

    RiverEndRick Well-Known Member

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    So another opportunity gets away and where does that leave us? Carrying on from the views expressed on the match thread, we really do have our work cut out out if we are to retain any chance of survival. Having squandered points to Watford and the Saints, we balanced that with a thrashing of Newcastle and a precious away win at Everton, who have now slipped into the relegation zone. Do we need more players? I don't think so, other than a CB on loan to cover for Klose (we can't afford to go down to one CB again). I'd also like to see us get Rhodes in, either on loan or a permanent deal, given Drmić's injury problems, but other than that, we're better off trying to get our present players playing more effectively. The Everton and Arsenal games showed that we can do that.

    As for the future, if the worst happens and we do go down, we will most likely need to rebuild. Pukki, Buendia and our young guns will draw lucrative offers. Will we be able to gain promotion again without them? I'm not sure, as much depends on their replacements. Will Tettey stay for another year? I hope so. He transformed that match last night and provided one of the best long through ball assists that I've seen in my long years. That's the sort of service Pukki's been missing. The effect of Stiepermann was less telling, IMO, and I'd have rather seen Emi on after HT and Todd shifting to CAM. There's still a long way to go and we are capable of getting more results, but it will be a battle.
     
    #1200
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