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FPP to take full control

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Whiteleas Wanderer, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. Draig

    Draig Well-Known Member

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    So you are 99.9% convinced FPP won't buy the club in 2020?
     
    #1461
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  2. Owld Feller

    Owld Feller Well-Known Member

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    When I don't fully understand how something works and then another can't explain it I find it comforting to learn that it wasn't just me being 'thick'.

    Many thanks for your reassurance on that. :emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #1462
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  3. The Berk

    The Berk Well-Known Member

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    Three and a half years is the cut off mate. :emoticon-0105-wink:
     
    #1463
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  4. Arlyman

    Arlyman Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on this but it makes the SD valuation of 40M or 35M absolutely ridiculous when the club sold for 12M last year. Maybe the 9M/15M valuation is correct. That would fit the idea that FPP have loaned their valuation of the club (hence why they get the whole club if the loan is not paid back), but might go higher if the use of the loan results in promotion/higher value for the club. The 35M-40M only makes sense
     
    #1464
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  5. Arlyman

    Arlyman Well-Known Member

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    in the context where the buyer would want a substantial amount of it to paid back into the club. I can't see anybody paying that just as profit to SD
     
    #1465
  6. Owld Feller

    Owld Feller Well-Known Member

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    He posted that he'd done the same to me, then replied to my posts again.
     
    #1466
  7. Bob Cheval

    Bob Cheval Well-Known Member

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    He wants to sell the club for £40m but Madrox also owes the club £25m. If someone owes you £50 and you buy something from them for £60, you just give them a tenner.

    Same situation here, any sale will also include the loan to Madrox being paid back.
     
    #1467
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  8. Ozzymac

    Ozzymac Well-Known Member

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    Forgive my ignorance Bob,

    With all the numbers that have been thrown about, where does the 25m he owes the club come from. I thought the 25m was given to Short as he cleared the SBC debt as part of the deal, in other words a club debt which was factored into the original deal.

    If Short didn't pay the debt then the club would have had to once SD took over and the parachute payments would have been used anyway.

    Obviously i must be missing something :confused:
     
    #1468
  9. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    *gets out whiteboard*

    Short version is he actually agree to use his own cash to pay the SBC loan, with the club as a sort of guarantor. He ended up using that guarantor (the parachute payments) so now he has created a debt of approx. £25m that his company, Madrox, owes to us.

    In some way, that has to be factored into the purchase, either by someone agreeing to buy Madrox and take the debt on, him wiping it, or alternative arrangements. Basically, it's a pain in the arse for him.
     
    #1469
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  10. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    That's just my opinion but yeah, not that I would ever say that % is mathematically calculated :D

    Basically FPP don't have to do anything to keep the deal that they were clearly happy to do in November (which long term may end with them owning us and comes with no risk). Unless their position has changed, I think reading between the lines, they have no intention of making a bid for the majority and Donald is using their presence to drive the price up with someone else.
     
    #1470
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  11. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    "They've got the exact deal I think they wanted from day one. They can own the club incrementally in a way that suits them with zero risk."

    "0.1% FPP change their mind and go all out to own a majority share in the club."

    Thanks, although I don't know how those two things can co-exist.
     
    #1471
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  12. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    Ah, obviously the latter means they have to change their mind about the original deal and decide to buy us immediately.

    The former means they continue with the convertible loan that one day (everyone hopes) leads to good things happening and them owning more of the club.
     
    #1472
  13. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    Also I've edited my post because I was half cut and didn't notice the error. Should be '80% he sells to someone else, 19.9% he stays and 0.1% FPP'
     
    #1473
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  14. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    So you're saying FPP are still very much involved and a takeover may just be a matter of time.

    If that's the case then we agree, I've been told point blank that their position hasn't changed since September.

    As I'm told they're not interested in being part owners, minor investors or lenders because there's little profit, fun or kudos to be had.

    They want to own an English football club and aren't currently looking elsewhere, at least nothing's been heard ...

    ... as things stand, we're the only one they're involved with.
     
    #1474
  15. Porterfield73

    Porterfield73 Well-Known Member

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    steady on lads, you two might end up in agreement if you're not careful!
     
    #1475
  16. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    My position has always been the same. The convertible loan allows them to come on as minority owners, but I doubt that's their long term aim. I think in their ideal world it goes:

    We get promoted to the Championship and Donald earns their confidence

    FPP convert this loan to equity of around 25%

    If they still want to minimise risk, they do another loan of a bigger amount that they can convert if we get to the premier league.

    Either way, 'minority owners' is just a pathway to being a majority owner one day and I agree with your sentiment. Because of the way this deal is structured, it's something they'd be if they converted it, but I think the only thing we differ on is timescales. I don't think they're going to make an outright bid for a majority of shares for a while, and if Donald is adamant he's selling the club in the next 3 weeks, it could balls up our chances with FPP sadly.
     
    #1476
  17. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    I think we agree generally! Tis a Christmas miracle.
     
    #1477
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  18. Magnus

    Magnus Well-Known Member

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    So if that’s right and he’s knocked his asking price down to 35m, 25m of that goes back into the club so that leaves 10m because who ever is stumping up the 35m will be getting 25m straight back into the club to play with
    FPP have paid the 10m so really all we need now if for them to put the 25 into the club and it’s a done deal
     
    #1478
  19. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    <laugh>

    I think we can all agree that FPP have done due diligence, flown over to see us play, visited the AOL, attended a board meeting, invested way more than anyone else, backed Donald into a corner, etc, etc.

    That'll do for a start ....
     
    #1479
  20. BigPete

    BigPete Well-Known Member

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    Feel a lot more confident reading the past few pages like good posts cheers

    I've always thought we won't find out till end of season anyway as obviously which division we are in makes a huge difference price wise.
     
    #1480

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