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Off Topic Coronavirus and NOTHING to do with football thread

Discussion in 'Watford' started by andytoprankin, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    You really should not believe desperate fairy stories from the Guardian.

    Momentum have effectively killed off the Labour Party by squeezing out any remnants of experience, talent or sensible judgement to leave a tiny pool of instantly forgettable lackeys. The present Labour Party is so irrelevant the SNP has become the only effective opposition to the longstanding Tory government. Keir Starmer will valiantly battle against the Momentum stranglehold of Labour's NEC without any success for years. Whatever the eventual competence of the Conservative government is judged to be, it is set to dominate for the next 10 years, barring a miracle. Boris Johnson will prove to be an excellent PM gaining much support across the UK for his 'one nation' approach.
     
    #121
  2. andytoprankin

    andytoprankin Well-Known Member

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    It’s from The Times. And BoZo will only live to be an “excellent PM” in the minds of the deluded and any of the old people who elected him - should they not be any of Cummings’ “too bad” fatalities.
     
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  3. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    When this crisis is finally over it will be a good time for governments to assess the so called 'solidarity' between nations. The UK government has learnt to its cost that dealing with multinational companies becomes difficult when the base countries put pressure on these companies to prioritise supplies solely towards home markets. This should, if correctly applied, give more reason to support to UK based businesses. Some vulnerable EU member states have likewise found support from fellow members totally lacking. This will not be forgotten in future contribution negotiations and calls for 'unity'. The pandemic has certainly increased the odds for some kind of break up of the EU in the coming years.
     
    #123
  4. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly the Tories were elected by all age and social groups. Dominic Cummings is a brilliant strategist who is unfortunately just reflecting what is actually happening around the world. To pretend otherwise is just futile.
     
    #124
  5. HHTFC1

    HHTFC1 Well-Known Member

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    There is a responsibility on the individual to use their brains and follow simple advice....yet we have seen that government after government has had to put in place laws/processes to ensure that the selfish individuals that insist on thinking of no-one but themselves don't affect many many more people

    The panic buying is selfish, the going to the parks, beaches and other areas en-mass at the weekend isn't down to anyone but the individuals themselves that think of no-one but themselves and to hell with everyone else.

    in terms of shopping I have adjusted this well known quote;

    Never in the history of grocery shopping, has so much been taken, depriving so many, by so few!!


    Please don't use this post to commence some form of political slandering towards either side....it is down to us as human beings to think of someone else other than themselves and DO THE RIGHT THING, FOLLOW THE RULES!!!
     
    #125
  6. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    We do not know what the World will be like after this SH. All those nations which have succeeded in containing the Coronavirus have one thing in common - they are all centralized states where the state has control of resources and is not afraid to act immediately, and where the population accepts this - they are all countries where the community means more than the individual. This has shown up the inability of the free market philosophy to cope with a crisis - the 'invisible state' favoured by them does not work here. We may see the state, increasingly, taking back more control of the economy in the future. At any rate Trump will probably fall as a result of this - other governments may fall, but we don't know which ones. This has exposed many of the fault lines in Western society - inadequate health systems, the need for unconditional citizens income, the inability of democratic governments to react quickly. The 'look after number one' philosophy so favoured by neo liberalism has no place here. As was the case after World War 2 the political centre may move to the left after this - maybe a return to the Keynesian ideas of those days. At any rate we will have learned that globalization brings dangers with it, and we must decide exactly what type of globalization we want - it is not a force which we have no control over.
     
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  7. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    We can easily exclude the totalitarian communist states of China, Russia etc as any kind of model for the future. What is appearing is a strong desire for countries to act on a nationalistic basis, which I suppose is the historical norm. There is no prospect of most nations continuing unconditional citizens income beyond any emergency period. Our best option is to accept projects such as the EU are fantasies created by a few dreamers. There should be cooperation and tariff free trading with all countries around the world, not creating markets such as the EU which severely damages the prospects of third world countries in places like Africa. It just requires a little more planning and investment to prepare for future pandemics or financial shocks.
    I expect life will continue mainly as before but with a little more realism on the reliance of so called 'friends'.
     
    #127
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  8. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    LBA has five flights today.. And one tomorrow!
     
    #128
  9. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Funny you should think that... Methinks the complete opposite.. The only way we can survive is if we all work together...
     
    #129
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  10. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    If you read it properly I am advocating working together without any trade barriers which have a detrimental effect on the least well off. Your EU project is being shown up as sham.
     
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  11. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Here we go slagging off again..
    You really need to look at yourself..

    The world in the future needs unity and cooperation in Every way..
    We need to rise above politics and ideology...
     
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  12. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    It is foolish to pretend there is a magical new world order, it is a fantasy. Can you please explain how you intend to change the world?
     
    #132
  13. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    The world has to do it each one of us..
    It comes down to people...
    I agree with Cologne that the free market of capitalism can't work in the same way.. At this time people need to put down their differences and help each other through..
    At every level in every institution..
    United we survive...
     
    #133
  14. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    So platitudes with no content, God help us if we need to rely on that.
     
    #134
  15. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    What I do not understand is that the success of South Korea is based upon fast mass testing and fast processing of results - yet in other countries they are testing only those with obvious symptoms, or those who have been in contact with known cases or who have just come back from an area which is badly affected. In Germany they are testing about 160,000 per week and the results are still taking 2-3 days. This means that if you allow 4 days for symptoms to appear and another 2-3 days for test results then a person has been walking around infecting others for 7 days before final diagnosis. The key appears to be to shorten this period dramatically and to bring in mass testing, also of people without symptoms. In South Korea they are doing this - they are able to perform tests in 10 minutes (without the tester changing clothes) and process results in a few hours. If they can do this then why are other countries not able to do the same ? The USA and Germany have both said that they have developed fast tests which should be available within the next two weeks - but South Korea has been using them from day one onwards.
     
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  16. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Many countries in the Far East are much better prepared as they had substantially more exposure to previous epidemics which honed their skills and gained valuable experience. I'm sure all governments will make sure they are better prepared for future pandemics. Nation states have learnt not to rely on others.
     
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  17. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    After the previous epidemics Sars in 2003 and swine flu in 2010 the UK government did buy stocks of PPE in reasonable quantities for back up. As interest waned so did the urgency to store these large quantities. As supply chains have broken down so badly this time I'm sure a more precautionary attitude will prevail. Life is so easy with hindsight although you could say the UK should have learnt from previous occurrences.
     
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  18. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    Mystery eh...
     
    #138
  19. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    This is what I wanted to share:
    From a trusted source

    From a doctor friend:

    VIRAL LOAD
    This from Jonathan Dransfield and GP Kath’s cousin another GP
    Very useful and relevant for all ages

    This is important!
    Might explain why some get COV19 mildly and recover fast and drs and nurses treating it in hospital die of it:

    Why do we need to shut places where people group?
    Remember this: VIRAL LOAD
    There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?
    With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.
    So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital. You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem.
    Wrong.
    Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.
    This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.
    This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.
    Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.
    If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it.
    No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.
    If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or an ITU/HDU specialist) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.
    THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:
    If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.
    A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.
    If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.
    Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.
    REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD
    It could save your life or your child’s.
    Britain, it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets to remind you. Yes I’m serious.
    #flattenthecurve
     
    #139
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  20. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    The scene on the London Underground this morning.

    Transport in London is supposed to be for essential workers only, but because of the government's so far weak response we have scenes like this. Today Gove has said that building works should continue because people are in the open air. He clearly knows little about building works. How are the bricklayers, plumbers etc in London supposed to get to work? Most building workers are self employed, and have no certainty about how they are supposed to live as the government has not made any firm commitment to ensure they get some money. If you want some clarity don't seek it in Westminster.
     
    #140
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