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Off Topic Coronavirus - 606 tales from the Inquiry

Discussion in 'Charlton' started by lardiman, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Sad grandstanding by Sir Keir Starmer today.

    He secretly couldn't wait for the UK Coronavirus death total to overtake Italy's, so he could ask the Prime Minister
    "Darlings, luvvies... Britain has the highest number of COVID19 deaths in Europe... how did it come to this? (impassioned sigh)"

    Give the man an Oscar.

    Just to think back,
    In the couple of weeks before the lockdown, did we hear Labour politicians howling at Boris to shut the UK down right this minute?
    No. We did not.

    PS:

    By the way, now Italy is "doing better" than us, will Tom Cruise be running away back there again?
     
    #961
    Last edited: May 6, 2020
  2. Holden Chinaski

    Holden Chinaski Well-Known Member

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    If Labour was in government they'd taken the same approach. There's a reason there is medical experts, Centre for Disease Prevention, PHE and more. They advice what to do; can't see Sir Kier going, "thanks for the advice, but I Googled it and decided to ban 5G towers instead."

    As for the toll, simply we have a bigger population, bigger population that travels abroad, more visitors to London, etc, however our cases per 1m Population is still lower. So many ways you can look at the data.
     
    #962
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  3. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Sadly I'm beginning to detect a pattern in how people are treated when they break the lockdown rules.

    If you are a common person, you'll get sent back home by the Police and probably be issued with a hefty fine.
    Fair enough.

    If you are a sports star or a VIP (Government advisor etc.) you'll get told off, and no further action taken.
    Hmm. Not quite so fair.

    Some things never change do they.
    We're all in this together - except for the famous and influential.
     
    #963
  4. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    The situation regarding COVID19 deaths seems to be now that as the number of deaths in hospital is falling quite rapidly, the number of deaths in care homes is rising at almost the same pace.

    This means that the overall deaths number is only falling very slowly.

    I don't want to sound heartless regarding care homes, but these are places which are relatively easy to isolate from the rest of society.
    If the rising number of deaths in care homes is causing the Government to keep the general lockdown in place for maybe another month, I question how necessary this is.

    In general people can go to work, go shopping and even exercise and take leisure time outdoors without going near care homes.
    If strict rules are kept in place regarding access to care homes (in order to reduce infection rate) then it should be possible to ease lockdown regulations for the rest of society.

    I don't mean this view to sound cruel towards people who have loved ones in care homes, or care home residents themselves.
    But is another several weeks of universal lockdown really going to be of much help to those care homes?
    I would think a well run program of very targeted help from specialist staff, plus strict access rules, would help them a lot more.

    I would guess that between 90% and 95% of people do not have a relative in a care home who they visit regularly. Their 'daily life' (if you will) does not involve care homes at all.

    The Economy is in very bad shape.
    We need to begin to get people back to work - as long as they can travel safely and work at a 2M distance.
    Garden centres and other stores with enough space to allow safe shopping need to be able to open again.
    Life needs to begin to move again, if very gradually.

    The Care home crisis should not be something the Government feels it can use as an excuse to keep everybody at home for weeks and weeks longer, when the real reasons for doing that are probably more to do with inability to work out how to run buses and trains safely.
     
    #964
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  5. The Elfsborg Sparrow

    The Elfsborg Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I don't like to criticise the Government in these very difficult times, but on finding that they are only now due to impose restrictions on people coming into this country, my question to them is what took you so long.
     
    #965
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  6. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    The logic seems to go something like this;

    Imposing a 14 day quarantine on people flying into the UK is going to be expensive (in time and manpower).

    While the domestic infection rates within the UK were very high, imposing the quarantine would have made almost no difference to the number of people catching COVID19 and the number dying from it. So all that time and manpower to enforce a quarantine would have been pretty much wasted.

    Now infection rates within the UK are much lower, a few infected people flying in and just mixing with the rest of us could have a much bigger effect. They could fuel a second explosion of infections. In Hong Kong and Korea I believe they are finding small spikes in their infection rates now, which they have traced to people flying in.
    So the time and manpower needed to enforce a 14 day quarantine in the UK will now make a big difference.
    In short, it is now worth doing.


    Some people wonder why the Government did not just close our borders 8 weeks ago and prevent anybody from flying into the UK.
    From what I understand, such a total closure would have had a very bad effect on essential air freight imports - bulk food deliveries, PPE, vital parts for key industries etc.
     
    #966
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  7. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    It is depressing to hear on TV that the dumbest rump of people in our society have assumed that Boris Johnson is going to announce the end of the lockdown from Monday in his big speech tomorrow.

    A journo actually felt it right to ask whether we could be told today if lockdown rules are going to be relaxed from Monday, so that people could go out and enjoy Parks and beauty spots on Sunday.
    (never mind the fact it's going to be about 8 degrees tomorrow with winds from the arctic circle).

    Despite his teasing words in the Commons the other day, it is obvious to anybody with an IQ above about 70 that Boris is NOT just going to announce the lockdown will end on Monday. There are probably going to be some minor changes to exercise rules, or maybe a few shops opening again like garden centres.
     
    #967
  8. The Elfsborg Sparrow

    The Elfsborg Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    The Transport Secretary has announced that to ensure social distancing, trains would only be allowed to be 10% of capacity.

    Good luck with implementing that one.
     
    #968
  9. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    The Government wants people to walk or cycle. But people cannot walk 10 or 15 miles or more.
    However, most of the office based people who have been working from home are just going to have to carry on doing that permanently.
    Or at least until everyone has the vaccine.

    The tubes and buses should be for health workers and other key workers, not IT nerds traveling to offices.

    I think there might have to be quite strict rules in future on who can use the tube network.
    No West End shoppers.
    No gaggles of foreign tourists
    No students (or their back packs)
    No football fans <yikes>

    Maybe homes in leafy towns 40 miles from London won't be worth £3 million each anymore, if people cannot commute into the City the way they used to.
     
    #969
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  10. The Elfsborg Sparrow

    The Elfsborg Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to think wfh will continue for the majority, but I fear bosses will want an earlier return than the Government will like.
    I'm dreading the sight I'll see on my first trip up to London for work.
     
    #970

  11. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    After more than 7 weeks it seems that the resolve of the public to obey the lockdown restrictions is crumbling.

    Police in London have said they were fighting a losing battle to stop people picnicking in parks this weekend.
    That implies there were so many that it was impossible to move them all on, and also that those picnickers were emboldened by their sheer numbers, and were no longer ashamed to be flouting the rules.
    In effect they had decided that the rules were now wrong, and that the Police were wrong to hassle them about it.

    Granted, I have myself expressed wishes recently that the lockdown rules be eased soon - especially to allow people to visit loved ones at other addresses, and to allow some places like garden centres to re-open.
    But I have never actually broken the lockdown rules just because I was fed up with them.

    Naturally, when the graphs on TV every day show NHS capacity increasing, the numbers in hospital and death rates declining, people will conclude that the battle against Coronavirus has been won. The terrifying threat of the NHS collapsing under the strain seems to be over.
    Add the increasing talk of a roadmap out of lockdown, and an ever larger minority of people are convincing themselves that freedom is only weeks or even days away.
    The sense of unity created by the instant and simple lockdown is now beginning to dissolve.

    Over to you Boris. Make today's announcement a good one.
     
    #971
  12. Clb74

    Clb74 Well-Known Member

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    So we leave those in care homes behind?
    What we have to remember is the government said were in this together.
    In the initial 3 week lock down they didnt really want to tell us anything about the next part of the lockdown.
    They kept saying were not thinking about anything else but trying to keep the deaths down.
    Those in care homes are all part of the country and after saying what the government said can they now leave those in care homes behind.
     
    #972
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  13. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    The care homes should not be left behind.
    Care homes were neglected during the early weeks of the pandemic. I would not deny that.
    All required resources (experts and equipment) should now be sent in to stop infections spreading within them.
    And care homes should be strictly quarantined, and isolated from public access.

    But from the point of view of the country at large and the 'stay at home' message, care homes are very similar to hospitals.

    We all know there is COVID19 at many hospitals because thousands of seriously ill patients with the virus are being treated there.
    But the presence of the virus in hospitals is not put forward as a direct reason why everybody should stay in their homes.
    The public at large can live their routine lives without going anywhere near a hospital.

    We all know as well now that there is COVID19 in many care homes.
    But its presence there should not be a direct reason why everybody should stay in their homes.
    The public at large can live their routine lives without going anywhere near care homes.

    The only direct reason to keep everybody at home is to suppress the rate of infection in the community.
    If infection levels are now much lower, and if social distancing is still enforced, then people can expect to be allowed outside more.
    The status of isolated Coronavirus hotspots (care homes and hospitals) should not influence that decision.

    There might be a feeling that we should stay indoors as a gesture of togetherness with the people suffering in care homes.
    A gesture to them that we are not leaving them behind.
    I can understand that, but if we were going to do that, should we not also do it as a gesture of togetherness with people suffering in hospitals?
    Realistically, I can't see people being willing to stay in lockdown just as a gesture of togetherness with virus patients in hospitals, and not coming outside until the number of hospital patients with Coronavirus has fallen to almost zero.
     
    #973
  14. The Elfsborg Sparrow

    The Elfsborg Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Bus into Bromley, people sitting next to each other.
    The pound shop had people virtually touching each other in the queue.
    Lidl back to normal service, there must have been 100 people in the place.
    Bus back from Bromley, again no distancing.

    An absolute joke.
     
    #974
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  15. Smudger603

    Smudger603 Well-Known Member

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    And they’ll all bleat when we’re hit with a second wave and a more disciplined lockdown is enforced
     
    #975
  16. The Elfsborg Sparrow

    The Elfsborg Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    I don't reckon so, the ignorant c**** will still not take any notice.

    As the newly appointed Assistant Moderator put it the other day, going into the likes of Waitrose and Marks n Spencers does not seem to have these problems.

    I have conceded defeat on pulling people up for the distancing, I'd be having a permanent fight with the f****** morons.
     
    #976
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  17. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    Just listened to the speech from Boris.

    Broad strokes mostly, changes of emphasis.
    Unlimited exercise time outside the biggest immediate change (well, from this coming Wednesday anyway apparently).
    Boris even said people could just spend time in parks, not just actively exercising. So sunbathing and just hanging around will be OK.
    That will take some pressure off the Police, but will people still observe social distancing?
    Parks are going to become very busy places, especially at weekends.

    People are also being actively encouraged to go back to work.
    That's fine as a starting point, but transport is going to be a massive problem.

    The biggest question I wanted an answer to is
    Are people going to be allowed to travel to visit family & loved ones living in other households?

    Boris did not mention this.
    I am hoping there will be some clarification in the next day or two.
    I'm going to be more than a bit miffed if folk are going to be allowed to loaf about in parks for hours every day, but I'm not going to be allowed to drive to my old mum's house so I can have a chat with her from the front garden while keeping my distance.

    Also, I'm wondering if garden centres and places like that will be opening soon.
    I'm sure I heard somewhere that they will be, some time next week.

    However, we must remember that the doctors and nurses in the NHS and care home workers are still under extreme stress.

    Many are at breaking point mentally by now I should think.
    They must be allowed to rotate (take some time off).
    We must all behave as sensibly as we can, and not get casual, for their sake.
     
    #977
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  18. The Elfsborg Sparrow

    The Elfsborg Sparrow Well-Known Member

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    Disappointing that Johnson has not allowed a bit of flexibility to enable families to see more of each other.

    Good luck on stopping the construction industry flood public transport.
     
    #978
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  19. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    As well as the buses and tubes, a lot of builders get lifts to work in each other's cars and cram themselves into vans.
    I don't think that has changed, or is going to.
     
    #979
  20. lardiman

    lardiman The truth is out there
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    The 50 page Government document has not apparently made the situation much clearer now, but the general drift seems to be 'use your common sense'.

    This leaves some very wide grey areas for the Police to have to cope with, so they too will have to use lots of common sense and keep cool heads, even when lots of thoughtless, impatient people will be giving them a hard time.

    Just remember folks;
    The Police are not much different to other key workers during this crisis.
    We need our Bobbies as much as we need doctors, nurses, care home workers, hospital cleaners, firemen, rubbish collectors, lorry & van drivers, bus & tube drivers, benefits office staff, civil servants, water / gas / electricity / fuel supply workers, supermarket staff...

    Coppers are under a lot of stress too.
    Let's try to cut them some slack and be civil when we encounter them. They are likely to respond in kind.
    We should not take out our frustrations on them, and provoke or fuel needless arguments.
    This whole mess isn't their fault.
     
    #980
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