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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    how dare these thugs stop someone from taking home some crazy paving
     
    #51141
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  2. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    • 8.7% of the people living in the most deprived 10% of neighborhoods in England and Wales are white. [2011 national census - here]
    • 86% of the population of England and Wales is white. [Same source - here]
    • Numerous studies show that individuals from BAME backgrounds with the same qualifications as a white counterpart are far less likely to get an interview; even with identical CVs and covering letters. [One source of many - here]
    You really don't think that ethnicity is a cause of being born into poverty? Seriously? Because there are some exceptions to the vast majority of cases? Come on.

    It is definitely easier to get out of the poverty trap if you are white. No 'may' about it. And that's before we get on to how the education system and justice system systemically discriminates against black individuals...
     
    #51142
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  3. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    please log in to view this image
     
    #51143
  4. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

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    A great man, MLK. How the world could do with more men (and women) of his quality nowadays.
     
    #51144
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  5. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the figures, I can tell you that there are plenty of white people in my area who are way, way below the threshold for poverty.

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5224316/scotland-poverty-emergency-outrage-stats/amp/

    https://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/asset...iance-Child-Poverty-Action-Report-2018-19.pdf


    I still think if an individual is focused enough he can achieve a great deal, regardless of ethnicity. I agree, there are many barriers for someone from a BAME background to achieve this, and they will need support from the education system and be fortunate enough to bypass any "old school" type of employment interviews and be taken on for the skills they possess.

    It's truly disheartening that race/ethnicity is still a defining character trait to the extent that some employers will disregard their CVs.
     
    #51145
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  6. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Cato Institute
    @CatoInstitute


    UK trade diplomats and their American counterparts have started negotiating a new transatlantic trade agreement.
    @CatoTrade
    's
    @snlester
    reports... https://j.mp/3geUd6a


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    Dispute Settlement and the US-UK Trade Agreement: Lessons from the NAFTA Renegotiation
    By
    Simon Lester
    This article appeared on UK Trade Forum on May 12, 2020.
    Share
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    UK trade diplomats and their American counterparts have started negotiating a new transatlantic trade agreement.

    They will have their work cut out for them dealing with US demands to liberalize sensitive UK trade barriers, including both tariffs and regulations that affect trade, while at the same time pressing the United States to reduce its own tariffs and regulatory barriers.

    In a world run by free traders, both sides would come forward with an offer to remove all barriers, and the negotiation would be short and sweet. However, the political reality is that trade agreements are a careful balance of “concessions” on market access by each side.

    There are systemic issues related to the governance of trade agreements that are important as well. The UK negotiators should not ignore these, because they affect the long‐term functioning of the agreement. In particular, the UK negotiators should be aware of two positions taken by the Trump administration in the renegotiation of the North American Free Trade Agreement*: to maintain weak dispute settlement and to add a “sunset clause” to the agreement.

    These issues may make an appearance in the US-UK trade talks and the UK negotiators should be ready.

    Beware the NAFTA Precedent
    On dispute settlement, a crucial element to a functioning process is that parties should be able to file complaints and get a neutral panel appointed to hear the dispute whenever needed. NAFTA was famous for the problem of “panel blocking” and was fundamentally flawed in this area.

    The dispute process worked for a few years, but then in 2000 the United States took advantage of a gap in the rules in order to stop a panel from being appointed to hear a complaint about US restrictions on imported sugar. No panels were appointed after that incident.

    There were calls to fix this issue in the NAFTA renegotiation, but the United States resisted, and the first version of the new NAFTA (the USMCA) did not solve the problem. Eventually, in response to demands by the House Democrats, the Trump administration agreed to make changes, which appear to have dealt with the issue.

    If confronted with this issue, the UK negotiators should insist on dispute settlement rules that function properly, including a guarantee of a dispute panel when needed.

    The United Kingdom should seek solid governance and dispute settlement provisions in its free trade agreement with the United States.

    The Trump administration may fight hard to maintain the flexibility to block panels. The UK should be prepared to review the text of all U.S. proposals carefully and to demand an enforceable system.

    With regard to the sunset clause, initial reports were a bit vague, but they seemed to suggest that the agreement would expire after five years unless the parties agreed to extend it. In the end, after push back from the other parties, the negotiated agreement shifted to a more complex arrangement that has the agreement last for 16 years, but at year 6 the parties will review the agreement and decide whether to extend it for another 16 year period.

    This provision will generate uncertainty and confusion, without offering any benefits. Parties are always free to withdraw from an agreement, so this additional termination option does not add much. Moreover, a presumption of termination unless the parties affirmatively agree to extend is a particular problem, as the uncertainty it creates would undermine the value of the agreement to the companies who trade or invest on the basis of the agreement.

    In addition, the six year review provision may mean less reviewing than is already possible. Reviews of trade agreements are valuable, and they should be undertaken regularly through the joint committees/commissions that these agreements normally establish. However, a big, high profile six year review may preempt the normal schedule of meetings between the parties where these reviews should be conducted.

    Trade governance issues can be dry and technical and their impact difficult to assess. But they are important for the proper functioning of an agreement.

    The Trump administration has some unorthodox views in this area, and the UK negotiators should be ready to defend against the demands they may face.

     
    #51146
  7. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    That there are poor white people in the UK isn't in question - it's a fact. But it's also clearly a fact that those from minority backgrounds, proportionally, are far more likely to be born into poverty.

    Which means ethnicity, as matter of basic statistical fact, is a strongly correlated causal factor of being born into the poverty trap.
     
    #51147
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  8. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    Characteristically noncey behaviour from Mogg this...

     
    #51148
  9. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    https://bit.ly/3gLgKYf

    I don’t want this to turn into a black v white thing but it seems obvious that white working class boys are being left behind.
     
    #51149
  10. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Then why do precisely that? It's undoubtedly clear that being born into the 'working class' - regardless of ethnicity - is a strong determinant of academic achievement. And, yes, that means there is an issue with working class white boys (and girls for that matter) too. That doesn't in any way negate the fact that being born into any minority ethnicity means you are statistically more likely to be poorer than if you are white.

    The statistics that Bradshaw cites, which if memory serves come from a few reports from the Rowntree foundation, are interesting. What's important to note is that the 'measurement' of working class in the education system is based on eligibility for free school meals. A quick google shows that 13% of white kids in high school are eligible for free school meals. That contrasts with 25% of Carribean or African boys. So the comparison is being made between the poorest 13% of one population and the poorest 25% of another population. If you assume an equal distribution of innate intelligence across all kids, regardless of ethnicity [which anyone who isn't a massive racist will do], you would expect the poorest 13% of one population to score lower on average across every metric [exams, university, later employment] than the poorest 25% of another population as the 25% of the second population has a larger spread. In essence, the comparison isn't fit for purpose unless you're comparing the poorest 25% of both populations, not 13% of one and 25% of the other.

    I read Akala's book Natives earlier this year, which discusses precisely this point. It's worth reading if you're interested in race issues.
     
    #51150
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  11. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    Then why do that ???? Well it was in answer to your post that’s why.
    The facts are there, however you want to interpret them, and obviously those in charge are concerned.
    Totally agree with your first point, that it is working class kids, from whatever ethnic background, who are suffering the most......
     
    #51151
  12. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    #51152
  13. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    Paul Embery

    @PaulEmbery


    I loathe political opportunism, whether from Left or Right. Political opportunism means you condemn a man for driving to Durham - “He might have killed people by spreading the virus, the murderous maniac!” - and then a week later egg on hundreds protesting in Trafalgar Square.
     
    #51153
  14. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    #51154
  15. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    dosent take much to fall out with the unions bosses these days
    the qc the members money will be paying for will be loving it

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    Paul Embery

    @PaulEmbery


    My employment tribunal against the FBU is set for 22-25 Feb 2021. The union leadership is spending a small fortune of members' money employing a top QC. This is in addition to the thousands spent on my internal case. All because I dared criticise trade union leaders over Brexit!

    Specifically, I was sacked from the union's national executive simply for saying that labour movement leaders were in danger of making the movement irrelevant by taking the side of the establishment over the people. That was it. By way of proof, here is the official allegation.


    please log in to view this image
     
    #51155
  16. YorkshireHoopster

    YorkshireHoopster Well-Known Member

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    Yes and No. Kids, white, black male, female leave themselves behind also. Lots of factors contribute to that and it's important not to erase personal responsibility for your own life choices from that list.
     
    #51156
  17. Staines R's

    Staines R's Well-Known Member

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    I agree to a point.........but that responsibility must also lay at the feet of the parents......many who don’t give a **** about their kids, and fail to install any pride in themselves and their community......as you say, there are many contributing factors
     
    #51157
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  18. Ninj

    Ninj Well-Known Member

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    I think that the sad result of the death in the US could have been addressed with a lot quicker in trump had issued an arrest warrant for the white copper. The rioting would have probably not happened, plus the potential spreading of the virus in the US reduced.
    It is just so sad that the avoidable death of someone can turn a country into a war zone which trump is only making worse by threatening to send in the military.
     
    #51158
  19. Bwood_Ranger

    Bwood_Ranger 2023 Funniest Poster

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    A mix of his ego and playing up to his base close to an election probably means he wants a civil war tbf.
     
    #51159
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  20. ELLERS

    ELLERS Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hell Jack Straw <applause>
    Discussing Hong Kong and China today.
     
    #51160

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