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Off Topic Coronavirus and NOTHING to do with football thread

Discussion in 'Watford' started by andytoprankin, Mar 21, 2020.

  1. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    We really should have a 'Corona virus and nothing to do with party politics thread', but I feel that 3 threads for this theme would be a little bit too much ! What can we learn from the Corona crisis ? For the last few months the skies have been really blue - somehow there appear to be more wild flowers around, and wild bees. Some countries are actually in danger of achieving their aims regarding reduction of Co2 emissions for the year. But the question is raised 'when do we get back to normality' ? Is it 'normal' to have over 2,000 flights every day ? To have the equivalent of a whole city up there ****ing up my atmosphere every day, flying here and there for reasons which are not essential ? Now - if I go to Cologne, I have the cathedral to myself without thousands of Japanese tourists with their clicking cameras ! A welcome relief, but how long can it last ? Will we realize that some of the positive aspects of this crisis are worth keeping ? For me it is absolutely clear that the financial help given after this crisis should be connected to the environmental performance of firms. I do not want the tax payers money used to supplement factory farming and insecticides. Nor do I want to subsidize Lufthansa without the taxation of kerosene - I do not want a return to the 'normality' of cheap flights to Majorca. We have a golden chance, and we must be prepared to take it. I also do not want to see firms subsidized who have their headquarters based in some tax oasis somewhere. The recovery after this crisis can be an environmentally aware one if we grasp the initiative.
     
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  2. yorkshirehornet

    yorkshirehornet Well-Known Member

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    I agree re the party politics thing.. it is circular and gets nowhere..ironic really as the parties have been working more constructively in the real world, as opposed to the sometimes divisive rhetoric on here.

    Re : the environment.. I can only echo your sentiments. I cannot however see the current regimes in the US and some South American states... forgoing any profits sadly....

    I think it will however have awakened many ordinary people to the possibility of a different way of life and a more harmonious relationship with natrue
     
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  3. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    You need companies to make profits so they can pay taxes for the government to spend in all the areas that the UK public relies on. Anti business attitudes will only result in less business, therefore less revenue for good causes.
     
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  4. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    When it comes down to protecting the environment you do not need revenue for good causes - money never bought such things as clean air, the environment is quite capable of regulating for itself. In Germany there are 23,000 millionaires - the interest which they earn (earn being the wrong word here) would cover the country's social needs many times over. The recovery I want to see is one based on Keynesian values which spreads wealth around, increases spending power at the bottom end of the pyramid - the idea that if you let the rich get richer then this will 'trickle down' and enrich others is a fairy tale.
     
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  5. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    If you think things will change to your ideals then I'm afraid you are in fairy tale land.
     
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  6. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    Er.....the apparent 'fairy tale' you refer to was actually the ideology which was dominant in Europe throughout the 50s and 60s, ie. the period of post war boom, and was more or less dominant until Thatcher and Reagan and the fairytale that everything would be regulated by free market, neo liberal thinking (by a kind of invisible hand). Now, after having lived through 30 years of a neo liberal hell hole which reduced the importance of the state in all economic areas - suddenly you have come to a crisis which can only be solved by the state increasing its powers. Therein lies a dilemma for you - you need the state to bail out vast sectors of the economy, but you do not want them to have an increased influence afterwards ? This Corona crisis has been, simultaneously, a crisis for the free market ideology - don't expect business as usual afterwards.
     
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  7. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    I don't expect many things to change as far as business is concerned. I expect less travel, more working from home but the fundamentals will not change. Governments will end up with much more borrowings, they have no choice but to bail out the private sector because it will be the means to reduce each government's debt mountain. Due to the Tories careful fiscal policies over the past 10 years our borrowing is set to remain way below many European levels.
     
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  8. colognehornet

    colognehornet Well-Known Member

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    ''The Tories careful fiscal policies over the past 10 years'' <laugh> By 2020 the government has borrowed more and increased the national debt by more than all previous Labour governments combined. The expected budget deficit from 2010 to 2020 is 870 Billion pounds.
     
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  9. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    It is no wonder that the UK parliament is the laughing stock of the world. Thanks to Rees-Mogg we have the ridiculous spectacle of MPs queuing for a kilometre to cast a vote. They could go through this twice more today. The system that existed with video links allowed MPs to both contribute and vote, but under the Mogg law they will lose their right to vote electronically. This is beyond parody.
     
    #2249
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  10. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The problem was caused by the Labour government up to 2010. Without fiscal prudence the UK would have ended up much further in debt like the French, Spanish and the Italians.
     
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  11. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    This is the only exercise most MP's get, great idea Jacob old boy!
     
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  12. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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  13. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    It was in 1928 that women were given equal voting rights with men, meaning that it no longer mattered if you owned property, you were equal with the richest person in the land. You through your vote could have your voice heard in Parliament. This afternoon Mogg took that right away by telling MPs they could no longer represent their voters unless they turned up in Westminster, even though they have been required to stay at home. No one as yet has been able to put a figure on it, though from some estimates it is in the millions. Another indication of how little respect they have for the already fragile democracy that exists in England.
     
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  14. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Democracy is alive and kicking in the UK which is why we are saying goodbye to the EU.
     
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  15. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Debate, you want debate? It is like asking someone from a primary school playground to have a debate.
    Still good to see that the honest part of the Tory party including Peter Bone voted against the dishonest part. Which side are you on SH?
     
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  16. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    Correct, of course I would be the teacher and you could easily play the confused toddler. :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
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  17. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    You don't wish to debate the first sentence then, how about making a try at the second one.
     
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  18. superhorns

    superhorns Well-Known Member

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    The Cummings story is over, it is clearly taking a while to reach your enclave.
     
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  19. oldfrenchhorn

    oldfrenchhorn Well-Known Member
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    Did I mention Cummings? Just trying to find out if you support the MPs who still have some shred of honesty about them, or the ones who get slapped on the wrist for fiddling the figures.
     
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  20. Tobes

    Tobes Warden
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    Yes mate, they’ve got a plan alright. Here comes that reality I mentioned.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528
     
    #2260
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