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FFP - City get off, is it now a dead duck?

Discussion in 'The Premier League' started by Tobes, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. jaffaklopp

    jaffaklopp Well-Known Member

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    Always wish they would do a European league competition where a best of the Premier league squad plays against the other European leagues. Would have some quality teams there.
     
    #101
  2. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    Make it maximum 1 player per club or it's basically just Liverpool + De Bruyne v Barcelona, and half our squad already beat them 4-0
     
    #102
  3. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    I tell you what, make them premier league squad players English and play that comp every 4 years and you might be onto something there.
     
    #103
  4. Bodinki

    Bodinki You're welcome
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    I aint reading all six pages of this, and someone may have clarified this, but just for my sanity if someone could explain....
    If City are innocent, then why did the fine still stand (albeit reduced).
    They either broke the rules or they didnt...surely.....

    How can they be "cleared" yet still get fined?!
     
    #104
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  5. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    Because the fine was for non cooperation rather than failure of FFP.
     
    #105
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  6. Bodinki

    Bodinki You're welcome
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    Cool.
     
    #106
  7. Commachio

    Commachio Rambo 2021

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    but you know no difference....it's all tv football for you...

    for many on here, footy goes way beyond tv....


    I pity you, having never experienced a real live matchday...the game is just a small part of the whole day...

    But at least you have a full months pass to watch **** games with no fans....
     
    #107
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  8. Prince Knut

    Prince Knut GC Thread Terminator

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    Seriously, as someone who was once a season-ticket holder, but now rarely goes and watches on TV, what is the difference between watching a game on TV with crowd noises, and having an actual crowd there? I mean The Etihad is actually noisier nowadays, and the Everton fan chants include several songs that aren't about Liverpool.
     
    #108
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  9. Prince Knut

    Prince Knut GC Thread Terminator

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    Ironic really that the whole situation only came about because e-mails were hacked, and then City wouldn't co-operate. But UEFA are being criticised (not that I'll defend them) for not investigating and charging them on time. And now journalists are saying City have been cleared - have they ****, no more than Roger Stone anyway. But it serves a purpose: FFP is a bag of ****e in its present form, and so is UEFA.
     
    #109
  10. Libby

    Libby 9-0

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    If I remember rightly City's refusal to co-operate was because of leaks that came from Uefa's side (something CAS agreed with) and a total distrust in the process.

    Not saying it's right btw, just something I remembered reading.
     
    #110

  11. Prince Knut

    Prince Knut GC Thread Terminator

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    The point is, City have got off with this because of process, like Trump wriggling out of impeachment. And the bottom line of that is that the process is shattered, because it's been written by a corrupt and inept organisation in the first place.
     
    #111
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  12. Tobes

    Tobes Warden
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    Not really mate. City got off with it, due to the fact that the main charges against them weren’t proven. The full CAS judgement isn’t out yet, and it’ll be a an interesting read, but they clearly say in their summary that the financial breaches were “mostly either not proven or time barred”.

    The bottom line here, is that UEFA launched this entire case off the back of an email hack, which appeared to show that the value of City’s sponsorship deal had been overstated, and a chunk of the revenue attributed to this channel had in fact, come from the owners themselves. Without the hack they’d have had absolutely nothing. Even with the hack they patently couldn’t definitively prove it.

    All of which begs the question, what the **** do they think they’re achieving here? City submitted audited accounts that met the criteria of FFP. So the club wasn’t left saddled with debt accrued from over spending. So why would anyone care beyond that?

    The fact that City’s owners likely did put their own cash in to ‘bump up’ the declared value of the sponsorships, isn’t reflected in the actual numbers, so who are UEFA protecting here exactly?

    It’s an absolute farce that two of the biggest clubs who cry about FFP are the Spanish giants, of Barca and Madrid, both of whom have been bailed out by Spanish authorities with tax breaks and various other financial doping measures over the years after periods of over spending. The fact they’re constantly trying to take the moral high ground on FFP is therefore an absolute pisstake.

    Then you’ve got a club like United. Their debt has doubled of late, they’re over $520m in the hole, their debt level could well exceed their turnover this financial year. Does that ring any alarm bells at UEFA? Nope, not a single **** given, as their accounts appear ‘clean’, despite the Glazers still taking out over £20m a year for themselves, whilst simultaneously increasing the net debt the club carries.

    The issue here is FFP and the fact that it’s a poorly conceived and implemented policy. If UEFA want to safe guard clubs they need to bin it and come up with a new idea of how to try and do it. The current farce is based on a fundamental lie, and is a legacy of their previous leadership, who were proven to be corrupt.. Bin it.
     
    #112
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  13. Prince Knut

    Prince Knut GC Thread Terminator

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    Think I mostly agreed about all of that, except for the semantics about City's 'Innocence'. Rightly or wrongly, those were the rules, and you yourself admit the Sheikhs probably broke them by bumping up the sponsorship deals with their own money, and that City have not had their guilt proven because it was time-barred. I totally agree about Real and Barca, and have said so a bazillion times. But again, rightly or wrongly, those were the rules, and City have wriggled out of it because a) They have good lawyers and b) bad legislation and policing in the first place.

    And on that last bit and the e-mail; it appears they administer this system on trust, of what the clubs themselves say on their audits (as do the IR, when you think about it). That being the case, what would IR do if a company submits its accounts for several years, then they alerted to the possibility that the accounts are fraudulent by a hacked e-mail? I think they'd ****ing investigate. And I think if it was Google or Amazon we'd get the same situation as now (but maybe without the fines and sanctions in the first place), because they're rich and can pay for top lawyers and bung the appropriate person(s). If it's Fred's small business, they get crucified. And that chuckled me about Martin Samuel's latest crawly bum-lick today in the Mail, much as he always backed Abramovich to the hilt :apparently Leicester and Burnley are part of the Hateful Eight elite trying to stop brave little City breaking into the cartel. Well I can guarantee this - had Burnley or Leicester done what City did, there'd be no 'Time-barred' 'Unproven' ****e for them.

    Btw, and absolutely no offence meant - but just how much do you think Morishi and Co will be bank-rolling you? Enough to break out of any FFP straightjacket, perchance? :biggrin:
     
    #113
  14. Tobes

    Tobes Warden
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    Audited accounts (by an independent third party) are what all authorities rely on to make numerous judgements, from tax calculations to whether the business is credit worthy. We can discuss all day whether those submitted and legally accepted accounts accurately reflect the reality of the trading profits of the company concerned.

    However, your analogy merely highlights what a complete farce the current situation here is. As ‘Fred’ and his small business would only be investigated after a whistle blow, for having misrepresented his accounts in order to understate his actual profits and thus reduce his tax bill. What’s happening here, is that UEFA are trying to prove that a football club has understated its actual losses, as the owner has chosen to cover them by means UEFA has deemed illegitimate. I doubt HMRC would be interested like.......

    As for Everton, FFP only becomes a genuine issue for us, when we qualify for European football. That said, the way it’s calculated (over a 3 year average) means that we’re currently close to crossing the line in terms of our adherence, due to the last submitted accounts. Without going into the detail, which I can genuinely bore you with for hours lol, this year’s numbers pre - COVID would have seen us compliant for the last 3 years. However, the sponsorship deals for Finch Farm and the pre naming rights payment for a stadium that doesn’t yet exist, says we’re showing our hand in plain sight, only the company that’s paying the bill isn’t owned by our actual owner. So the message to UEFA would be sniff it I’d suggest.
     
    #114
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  15. Prince Knut

    Prince Knut GC Thread Terminator

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    * Just ****ing dare and I'll write another essay on Apollo and the moon-landings. Or The Beatles. :emoticon-0114-dull:
     
    #115
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  16. astro

    astro Well-Known Member

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    So EFC will never have to worry about complying with FFP in its current form.
     
    #116
  17. Treble

    Treble Keyser Söze

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    Mate I still get the same feeling every time I walk up the steps and the scene opens out to a full ground. And the perspective of the whole game, the players' movement across the pitch gives a much better perspective than anything you get on TV. You appreciate the skill of a player more, the passing, the runs, the space more.

    Isn't that also why Astro is arguing about WANTING to go to watch a match at the stadium? Clearly even he thinks it's a better experience.
     
    #117
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  18. Commachio

    Commachio Rambo 2021

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    Whoa...this whole page is blur of text... I fink sum students have typed less words a got decrees...And a rash.
     
    #118

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