Coronavirus: Please use this thread for all COVID19 talk!

The Swedish government’s stated objective at the start of the pandemic, was to ensure that their health system wasn’t overwhelmed. They’ve achieved that at any rate.

The article you initially quoted actually states that protecting the economy wasn’t the rationale behind the far looser lockdown. Not sure how many of those other things you accuse Anders Tegnell of claiming, actually came from his mouth. But in any case, Sweden clearly approached the pandemic with a different set of priorities and a different perspective to their neighbours.

My point is that, before all the evidence is in, it’s still very early to be writing their approach off as a failure. A bit like when Zou Enlai was asked, in 1972, to weigh up the effects of the French Revolution, and he replied it was “a bit too early to tell.”

 

But Finland also avoided their health system being overwhelmed. As did Norway and Denmark. But they did it with way less people dead. And with fewer current cases. And with a better outlook going forward, because there is a lower viral load.

It's hard to see what their priorities and perspective was if they believe that they have succeeded in a fashion their compatriots have not.

No, it really isn't too early to write off their approach. The whole premise -- that herd immunity was achievable, and desirable -- was totally wrong. No matter what happens from this point on, a whole lot of people died because they refused to listen to the WHO.

 

Okay, it’s not too early for you to write off their approach. The New Scientist, to give an example, takes a more nuanced position...

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...trategy-a-cautionary-tale-or-a-success-story/

Almost 50% of the deaths in Sweden were in care homes btw. As they were in the U.K. While this is certainly evidence of political failure, it can’t be blamed on the less stringent lockdown. It’s not true either, to say that there was no lockdown in Sweden. There was a less stringent, more consensual lockdown there than elsewhere.

I still maintain it’s far to early to assess the impact of Coronavirus around the world, or to draw conclusive assessments of the efficacy of different governments approaches. But you’ve already made your mind up.

 

And a large percentage of the deaths in other countries were in care homes, too. But even if you eliminate all of those deaths, Sweden has more deaths, more people suffering long-term effects of COVID, more current cases, more economic decline. Take out all the care home deaths, and assume that there were exactly none of those in the rest of Scandinavia (which would obviously be untrue), and they merely have about 500% more deaths than the rest of the region.

What exactly is the measure that they actually succeed on? Surely, there must be something. In that New Scientist article, Sweden's success isn't that they did better, it's that people reacted to less-stringent lockdowns as if they were more stringent. Neat! That's not actually success by any metric, if anything it indicates that the Swedish government underreacted and consequently the populace had to do the work for them.

 

Must admit I was suprised to see that Sweden's deaths per 100,000 is lower than both Spain and Italy are who had very strict lockdowns.

 

Timing, mostly. Spain/Italy's crises were frontloaded: they got sucker-punched, and by the time it became clear that strict measures were necessary, they were already in a bad way. Both plateaued really early though and have had a pretty low caseload/death count over the past two months.

 

Perhaps. I tend to agree that we won't really know for certain until years down the line, and all countries have made mistakes, some undoubtedly more than others. Lockdown delay and care homes being ours.

I'll be interested to see when the time comes at what cost of life the lockdown itself was estimated to cause. Saw a recent study put it at circa 20k in the UK, that's as tragic in itself as the deaths by the virus imo.

 

Do you know the lockdown rules? Channel 4 asking various people.

 

Why am I not surprised at all? I met an English lady who lives in France yesterday (I kept a decent distance from her) - she said she'd only arrived yesterday, but didn't need to quarantine or self-isolate as "I'm going back on Friday ....." - she got quite upset when I and her neighbours told her she damn well wasn't and we'd be speaking to the local police about her if we saw her out and about again .......................

 

Oh dear!

 

She needs a full and frank discussion with old bill, arrested and banged up in solitary for 14 days, named and shamed across all media.

 

I think this is out of order. The NHS/Trust have a duty of care that includes providing their staff with the correct PPE.

https://inews.co.uk/nhs/nhs-trust-s...ctise-579861?ito=social|facebook|fb_theipaper

 

No she doesn’t ffs. This is England, still (just about) a tolerant country where people value each other’s civil liberties. A stern talking to is the English way, not dragging her off to Gestapo HQ in the middle of the night.

 

I seem to remember a short while ago we had men in unmarked military style clothing grabbing people and throwing them into the back of unmarked vans. Now we have big government contracts given to friends of ministers and the PM. These are the hall marks of very unsavoury administrations.

 

Well, if I see her out and about, I shall be the one calling the old bill - mind you, I'm not sure who is supposed to actually police people breaking quarantine? Is it a police matter? Haven't they got enough on their plate and will they only send someone in a few hours when they get the chance - in which case this bloody woman will be halfway down the M25 on her way to the tunnel ...............

 

My family (not me) went to a wedding in Ireland just as it was suggested that the Irish would introduce a quarantine period. The Irish embassy informed them that as long as they were all going to the same hotel they could leave as planned rather than isolate as they’d rather they left the country. Mind you the Irish have a loosey goosey attitude to rules.

 

A new test is going around for COVID 19 and it is easy.

Take a decent dram of your favourite Whisky (Rum or Gin will do) and see if you can smell it. If you can you are half way there. Drink it next and see if you can taste it. If you can you are safe.

I tested myself 9 times last night, and was virus free each time. I will have to test myself again tonight as I have developed a headache which could be a symptom.