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Tottenham vs the Toon

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Dr Van Helsing, Sep 20, 2020.

  1. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    As long as you got the first sentence, you got the important bit <ok>
     
    #421
  2. Ben 10

    Ben 10 Well-Known Member

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    Thought you'd give up on the coke
     
    #422
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  3. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    No shots on goal for 180 mins...not the same as rafas countering style...
     
    #423
  4. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Well-Known Member

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    Eh? I disagree here, mate, the only real difference was Rafa's troops were better drilled, i.e. wouldn't be heavily relying on the 'keeper (like Bruce does this year, and did last year). Rafa's teams rarely had any threat either - it's the problem with having a ****ing terrible squad. Bruce, however, is performing even worse because this squad is around £100m better than Rafa's (allegedly).

    I just don't see what Bruce is trying to do. I'm not sure he really knows how to do the job either, and that's not just a half-arsed insult, it's a genuine concern. Regardless of whether the rumours about upsetting Lascelles, Ritchie and others are true, it seems to me that he is playing people out of position with unnecessary regularity. Yesterday it was Hayden, Ritchie, Almiron - I mean, how difficult is it to get together and understand you need one more player who can operate left back/lwb? Furthermore, how difficult is it to pay about £3m or less for Jetro Willems to solve that issue?

    Feels like he can't really manage this group of players. He doesn't have a gameplan, he isn't playing players to their strengths, he's keeping those who appear to be "trusted lieutenant" types in the side, to the detriment of his better footballers - it's McLaren-style football suicide. He needs to start with some kind of identity - for me, our best mode of play is to stay tight and organised, then recycly possession quickly when we win it back. That means getting our ball-carriers narrower, which is why we then need wing backs instead of flat lines. We then need players who can press and get the ball in the middle, then recycle it at pace and I think Hendrick/Longstaff are best for these roles, with Miggy dropping to help too. Shelvey has no purpose in this style of play, he should be moved on. Hayden is a decent DM, but probably more a "big 6" option, as he doesn't really do much else but would be useful backs to the wall and as CB cover. Not sure what Matty is as it's been a year since he played.

    So you have your 3 CB's, preferably Schar, Lascelles, Fede/Clark, then wing backs in Manq and Lewis. 2 CM's are Hendrick and Longstaff, with 2 AM's from Joe, Max, Almiron, Fraser, then Wilson up front. Or drop a CB and got with 3 AM's, with Almiron in the 10. Good options, but we're nowhere near that yet and I can't work out why.
     
    #424
  5. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    Then we're watching a different side.

    Rafas side created chances... We were effective on the counter that's a huge difference.

    Also in so sick of explaining this, but the side rafa left was the 6th highest point collecting side since we signed Almiron for a full half a season.

    The rafa haters ignore that and compare the side before then.
     
    #425
  6. Geordieginola

    Geordieginola Well-Known Member

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    I’ve thought about this squad long and hard and compared it to rafas and the similarities are almost parallel with the two squads personnel wise.

    Our back 5 players are mostly the same.

    Our cm are the same in terms of names and level.

    We have max on the left and Almiron on the right where we had ayoze and an other. Kennedy or atsu. Ayoze didn’t get the praise he deserves so on balance what we have now I think is similar.

    Finally we had Rondon and now we have Wilson.

    So in a nutshell in terms of players and tactics we should really be playing the same as Rafa.

    But we are definitely playing a lot worse. That’s pure tactics and instructions.

    4-4-2 just does not work in the premiership now. It leaves to many gaps. It has to be 3-5-1-1 with the players we have or 3-5-2. The team picks itself when all are fit. The emphasis now in the premiership has to be work rate. And THAT is where we totally come undone.

    The main problem is CM where we are hopeless. Playing Shelvey and Hayden (I know he played at the back but usually in do) is not the answer but it worked with Rafa because he had a player like longstaff (either) to effectively do the leg work.

    Shelvey is finished as a premiership player. Hayden serves a purpose and would probably look good if he had someone with legs next to him.

    Then it boils down to tactics. Without the ball we need to press. This is something ALL teams do now. Website sit back two banks of 4 and a 1. And wait. If we do get the ball because positionally we are so rigid we have no options but to hoof it and hope it sticks. THAT is not acceptable.

    All in all I think a lot of teams are going to pick up points this season where they don’t expect to apart from us because we do the same exact thing week in week out.

    Any opposition manager now knows what we are going to do.
     
    #426
  7. Welshie

    Welshie Chavcunt fanboy dickhead

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    Need to knock these long posts on the head lads

    ****ing tedious reads
     
    #427
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  8. Roland Deschain

    Roland Deschain Well-Known Member

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    Sure, it's probably an unfair comparison. To be honest, it's all very pointless - I think we should just forget about Rafa. Bruce is pretty bad in comparison and isolation, so may as well just focus on his failings.
     
    #428
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  9. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    <laugh><laugh><laugh><laugh><laugh><laugh><laugh><laugh> Its almost like you are cherry picking his purple patch mate
     
    #429
  10. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Nah just don't read them mate, there is room for all types of posts <ok> Some of the short ones are about as informative and as much use as a chocolate fireguard but we let them slide.
     
    #430

  11. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    Not really.. Thats the side he left isn't it? We signed almiron then we started playing well.. Why compare today's side with a side rafa didn't leave?

    If it was the othe way around fair enough, but otherwise its actually you picking the worst period and pretending the rest didn't happen.


    A catipliller turns into a butterfly not the other way around
     
    #431
  12. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Did we not once fail to register a single shot at home against bottom side Fulham at St James under Rafa? Then got thumped 4-0 off Liverpool the following game (I don't know if we registered a shot, if we did they were ****e) Probably not a great subject matter to use to defend Rafa to be honest <laugh>
     
    #432
  13. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    You have to judge over an entire season. All teams have good spells. Its been noted many times that Rafa targeted the 2nd half of seasons. So it would give a skewed view. The ideal would be to judge Bruce against him over 2 and a half season if we wanted a comparison.

    We don't need to though. Rafa is clearly a better manager than Bruce, I don't think anyone would say otherwise. Rafa's team are also incredibly bad to watch. I don't think anyone would say otherwise. Bruce's teams are incredibly bad to watch. I don't think anyone would say otherwise.

    Why don't we just go and get a good manager, who plays football properly and entertains. I don't think that's a massive thing to ask of Ashley personally.
     
    #433
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  14. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    I refer you to my previous point!

    We beat Fulham 4-1 away.. Thats the side he left..

    Why are you pretending the side he left wasn't the 7th highest point amassing side in the league??

    It's pointless using the side prior because that's not what the side he left was.
     
    #434
  15. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    That's nonsense... If it was the same side all season yes, but it wasnt.

    You cb tap dance around it all you like, but rafas final put together side was the 7th best in the Country for the entire period that side actually existed.

    We were very effective on the counter.. We had a recognised style.. Solid defensively, but with a sting in our tail...

    I repeat that is NOT what we have been yesterday or all season last season.
     
    #435
  16. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    As entertaining it is to cherry pick moments, its also daft. We've got full seasons to compare between Bruce and Rafa in consecutive seasons. No need to cherry pick individual parts of seasons etc or when they had this player or that player. Similar resources, performed almost identically. Both **** to watch. Its like picking between brown and white ****.

    That's the most accurate assessment we can have at present obviously.

    I mean if you think Rafa would have finished 7th last season, I'm unable to help you <laugh>
     
    #436
  17. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Nah
     
    #437
  18. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    You cherry picked a moment I replied

    Please feel free to take a minute and write down the side that existed.

    Try looking at when it didn't exist,when it starting existing when it stopped existing... Then look at the results and the stats.

    It'll help you understand
     
    #438
  19. Dr Van Helsing

    Dr Van Helsing Well-Known Member

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    You really are a bit dumb tbh mate

    I'll try another explanation

    If I go to the gym and can lift 80 kg, but a year later I can list 140 kg then it's ridiculous to compare strength based on my original strength
     
    #439
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  20. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Remind of our form at the end of the previous season under Rafa? Ah yes we amassed 25 points post Xmas didn't we. Form that if we had recreated over an entire season, we would have finished 7th. So its strange we started the following season like an absolute bag of **** <laugh> You really are thick as mince aren't you?
     
    #440

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