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Grand Prix thread 2020 Portuguese Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by ched999uk, Oct 22, 2020.

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Who will win?

Poll closed Oct 24, 2020.
  1. Lewis Hamilton

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  2. Valtteri Bottas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Max Verstappen

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. Alexander Albon

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  5. Daniel Ricciardo

    1 vote(s)
    10.0%
  6. Carlos Sainz

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Lando Norris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Pierre Gasly

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Charles Leclerc

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. Any Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    I also wonder if Horner is the right person to help him progress. He seems to blow smoke up his derriere non-stop but Verstappen needs a principle who will tell him when he's in the wrong to help him grow. I can't see Toto, for example, protecting him as much as Horner does.
     
    #101
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  2. ched999uk

    ched999uk Well-Known Member

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    Good point.
     
    #102
  3. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    I'm certainly not looking to use Rosberg as a stick, and yep he had to work real hard to beat Hamilton, but if you recall some of the wheel to wheel racing those two had, Rosberg was capable of putting up much more of a fight to Hamilton it seems. Or at least to me
     
    #103
  4. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Simple answer to that is no. The people around him haven't helped him develop at all. If he was somewhere else, he might have progressed much faster.
     
    #104
  5. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I don't disagree with that. Just wonder who on the grid (Verstappen aside) would do better than Bottas. Perez maybe? I also wonder if Merc has changed the way they operate since 2016, too. E.g. what we saw today with the tyres.
     
    #105
  6. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Max and Hamilton in the same car would probably be carnage. Hamilton/Leclerc would be seriously interesting. Hamilton/Danny Ric? Now that would be a seriously solid number 2 imo.
     
    #106
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  7. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Ah, yes, that *would* be fun.
     
    #107
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  8. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Don't rule out LeClerc challenging him
     
    #108
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  9. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    I refuse to count the years, just stay young at heart.
     
    #109
  10. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    Red Bull are not a great team, We are all dishing Albon but how many number 2 drivers have failed at RedBull? Everyone and then some have gone on to shine elsewhere. Verstappen may be a great driver but his potential won't be fully known without a move to a better team.
     
    #110
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  11. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Too many!
     
    #111
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  12. happyal

    happyal Active Member

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    Lewis has had 3 teammates that, in my opinion, where allowed to challenge him. Rosberg, Button and Alonso. 2 of them beat him and 1 was equal on points. His other teammates (in my opinon) have been signed as an outright number 2 driver.

    Lewis is obviously a great driver, so yes a driver would have to be at the top of their game to beat him, but that should be a given. Every driver on the F1 grid should be focused 100% on driving as that is what it takes to win in modern F1.

    He's had a great career and will live long in the stats, he's been very lucky to be in the most dominate team in F1 history, as the number 1 driver (weather official or not). Records are ade to be beaten, and these will if F1 survives long enough. But I'm ready for some competition to return to F1.
     
    #112
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  13. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    You say lucky, but he made the choice to go there when the vast majority of people we're saying it was a ridiculous move and he only went there for the money. Merc were willing to pay him that money and continue paying him crazy amounts for a reason... And it's payed off all around. I'm not sure that's luck.
     
    #113
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  14. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    I'm also not sure that "two of them beat him and 1 was equal on points" tells the whole story. As a rookie he drew with an experienced double world champion at the top of his game. Rosberg pipped him thanks to better reliability over the course of one season. Button is the one with the best claim to have beaten him fair and square.
     
    #114
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  15. happyal

    happyal Active Member

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    I don't want to get into a back and forth about each point, as it's been done to death. I'll only post once about this.

    But Rosberg had reliability issues that season too, he had about the same issues as Lewis so I would say it's about fair. McLaren were supporting Lewis 100% the second part of 2008. If McLaren had supported Alonso (as was in the contract Alonso had), he would of won in 2008 and 2009 easily.

    I'm not saying he's not a F1 great, he has been the dominate driver of this era. I'm just saying, that in my opinion, he's as good as his stats suggest, he's won the WDC most of the time when he should off, but (again, in my opinion) he's never dragged a car that shouldn't of won the WDC into contention. I know a aweful lot of people in UK forums think he's the GOAT, so I guess we will just to have agree to disagree.
     
    #115
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  16. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    He is among the greats, wether people like him or not. Tbf, if you look around most social posts and a lot of forums, there's a lot of hate for the bloke. I don't think there is a bias because he races under the union flag. I actually feel he doesn't get the credit he deserves. But that is what it is.
     
    #116
  17. Quite Possibly Raving

    Quite Possibly Raving Well-Known Member

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    Entirely reasonable post and perspective. I actually think it's completely impossible to compare fairly across eras in this sport (and most others), so I'd hesitate putting him or any other as the definitive GOAT. Could go back and forth on a few points of detail in the post, but agree it's been done to death and we both have better things to do!!
     
    #117
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  18. SgtBhaji

    SgtBhaji Well-Known Member

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    Of course it's impossible to compare drivers over generations as we'll never know how well they would stack up in different machinery or era, but it's also daft to dismiss Hamilton's achievements. We all know he's fast in about any condition, can dog fight with the best, and can manage a car when needed. He's got all the traits of a great and the numbers to back it up. He's certainly not overated.
     
    #118
  19. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100% . At the time me and a friend at work thought he had just gone for the money.

    Then you learn Niki Lauda persuaded him to join. They were serious...
     
    #119
  20. Justjazz

    Justjazz Well-Known Member

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    https://www.statsf1.com/en/lewis-hamilton/coequipier.aspx

    Rosberg won a higher percentage of his races than Bottas. Percentage of retirements is interesting, more than 70 in Alonso's case. No wonder he was fed up by the time he left. 1 in 4 races he had to retire, no doubt more in the later years.
     
    #120

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