Understanding a little more about what is going on

Well if they are really the rules we have nothing to worry about. Short donates 20 million to the club.

When he sells the club in 4 years time for twice what he bought it for because we are successful that 20 million he gave away will have been peanuts.

 

What does this keyring look like?

x

 

20 million doesnt go very far

he may get a lot less than he payed for, if things go pear shaped (and there is probably more chance of that than success in football)

How may owners have donated their cash to any club. 0 even Man City sold the naming rights of their stadium to earn a bit of extra income.

the best way is to get a higher turnover, but if we only on the TV once before xmas, this makes it very hard to get it, I know abroad we will be on all the time, but if we are on at the same time as Liverpool/Chelsea/Man City/Spurs/Arsenal/Man U we wont get much viewing time over there either.

Which is why Quinn has been sent out with his gift of the gab to try and generate interest in us, but it wont be easy. If HSBC sponsered Grampus 8 in Japan 99.9% of supporters would not suddenly start supporting Grampus 8.

for me its catch 22, to generate income you need Europe, but to get into Europe you have to spend, but if you spend, you get banned from Europe.

 

I read this article earlier this year, has taken me a while to find it , but worth the read, as a follow up to Vegasas thread.



Thursday 28 May 2009 11.00 BST
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Ellis Short, who has taken complete control of Sunderland, was born in Independence, Missouri, on 6 October 1960, though is now based in Dallas.


An Irish-American, Short made his fortune in the highly competitive world of private equity and hedge-fund management. He began his career at General Electric before teaming up with business partner John Grayken in the mid-1990s at Lone Star Funds, a private equity firm based in Dallas, Texas, with huge success. It was here Short built up his business acumen, securing his position as senior executive, running the Asian operations. Since 1995, Lone Star have established funds worth more than $13.3bn (£8.3bn) that routinely produced annual returns of between 9% and 23%.


In 2003 he was subject of an arrest warrant by the South Korean authorities relating to the purchase of 51% of Korea's fifth-largest bank, the Korea Exchange Bank, for $1.5bn. The takeover was investigated by the Korean authorities and in 2006 the Seoul Central District Court issued arrest warrants for Short and Lone Star's general counsel, Michael Thomson, over allegations of stock market manipulation. Both denied the accusations, and Grayken described the charges as "unsupported conspiracy theories". Charges were eventually dropped in June 2008 and the following August his group took over the IKB Deutsche Industriebank AG, the first German bank to fall victim to the credit crisis, for an undisclosed sum.


In 2003, Short bought Skibo Castle, an ultra-exclusive Scottish retreat, for a reported £23m. Now operating as a members-only hotel and country club, the castle is famous for hosting Madonna's wedding to Guy Ritchie in 2000. Short led a members' buyout of the castle, since renamed the Carnegie Club, from Peter de Savary, and he is understood to visit regularly.


Ellis Short and his wife usually shun the limelight. A Sunderland club source commented: "This is no Abramovich or Shinawatra. He loves the club and he can see that there is a sustainable plan, but he is happy to stay below the radar."


Short now has complete control of Sunderland. He joins fellow Americans Malcolm Glazer (Manchester United), Randy Lerner (Aston Villa) and Tom Hicks and George Gillett (jointly at Liverpool) as owners of Premier League clubs. It remains to be seen whether his success off the field can be transmitted to the Sunderland players, who narrowly retained their Premier League status on the final day of the season.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/may/28/ellis-short-sunderland-owner-profile?INTCMP=SRCH

 

You will find the opposite, actually.


FourFourTwo.com Rich List 2011/12 – top 10 overall
1. Sheikh Mansour Man City £20bn (last year: £20bn, 1st)
2. Alisher Usmanov Arsenal £12.4bn (last year: £8bn, 3rd)
3. Lakshmi Mittal QPR £11.8bn (last year: £17bn, 2nd)
4. Roman Abramovich Chelsea £10.3bn (last year: £7.4bn, 4th)
5. The Liebherr family Southampton £3bn (last year: £3bn, 5th)
6. Joe Lewis Tottenham £2.8bn (last year: £2.7bn, 6th)
7. Denis O'Brien Celtic, Doncaster £2.517bn (last year: £1.87bn, 7th)
8. Stan Kroenke Arsenal £1.8bn (last year: £1.85bn, 8th)
9. Malcolm Glazer Manchester United £1.64bn (last year: £1.53bn, 9th)
10. Mike Ashley Newcastle United £1.37bn (last year: £950m, 16th)

 

I think it depends which list you read as I saw Ashley worth 4bn in another publication, it depends what they count as his assets.

Its all irrelevant really because it all depends how much they are willing to spend on the club, if either put 500 million into either club then they would be competing with Citeh.

 

A South Korean court has fined US buyout fund Lone Star $20.9m (£13.4m; 15.6m euros) and jailed its former Seoul chief for stock price-fixing.

The decision by the Seoul High Court overturned a 2008 acquittal in the long-running case.

It had temporarily halted Lone Star's efforts to sell its 51% stake in Korea Exchange Bank (KEB).

Lone Star bought the stake in KEB for $1.2 billion in 2003 and later merged it with KEB's credit card business.

Spread rumours

It was alleged Paul Yoo, who ran the firm's South Korean division, deliberately spread rumours that KEB Credit Services might reduce its capital and issue new shares, to reduce the price of a merger.

Yoo has been jailed for three years.

Lone Star has reached an agreement to sell its KEB stake to Hana Financial Group in a deal originally assessed to be worth $4bn. But the deal was put on hold awaiting the outcome of the court ruling.

The conviction, according to Seoul's Financial Services Commission, said Lone Star was likely to be judged unfit to be the majority owner of KEB.

The court case had thwarted Lone Star's attempt to sell KEB to Kookmin Bank in 2006 and to HSBC Holdings in 2008.

Public discord and the US buyout firm's legal woes have dissuaded foreign investors from acquiring Korean companies, said Henry Seggerman, president of New York-based International Investment Advisers.

 

A very optimistic article here.


You've made an article stating he's a good business man. Do good businessmen keep pumping money into a business that is haemorrhaging funds year-on-year? Yes you sold Bent for £18m and Henderson for £20m but you spent £30m this summer and £13m on Gyan...these figures have not been taken into account for the end of year tax returns. That would mean an expected loss of around £20m assuming your wage bill hasn't fluctuated too much, going off your latest two returns.

Chairman Short, is only Chairman Short for one reason and that is because Niall Quinn was ridiculously out of his depth and on a complete train-wreck course. He had lost the plot and didn't have a clue what to do with his beloved football club. Short probably does have more time on his hands but do you think he's just going to rest on his laurels now?

If you had £1.2bn would your only business be one that is losing significant amounts of cash year-on-year? NO. That figure of £1.2bn only makes about £6m a year in interest with the current interest rates, that's not enough - it's even less than that if he's got cash in the US.

Therefore to conclude, he simply HAS to have other, more prosperous business interests than that of SAFC because he IS a good businessman therefore won't be sitting in an office in Sunderland 9-5. I expect he'll be more hands on but the sale of any shares in a company that was making him money will generally mean the guy is looking at other businesses to start/invest in. If he isn't then you certainly have no future as the guy will stitch up his pockets and look after number 1.

 

"If you had £1.2bn would your only business be one that is losing significant amounts of cash year-on-year? NO. That figure of £1.2bn only makes about £6m a year in interest with the current interest rates, that's not enough - it's even less than that if he's got cash in the US."

Absolute crap.
1% of 1bn is 10 million. I can find high street interest rates of over 3% easily. So there's well over 30 million straight off.
Add to that most of his money wont be sat in crappy high street accounts but high yield VIP accounts plus many share holdings and old Mr Short is getting far far more than 6m a year.

 

CyprusMackem - you're deluded.

You think billionaires are going to stick any more than their bill money in a high street bank account?

When every single wealthy person on the planet is buying gold your chairman is sitting with £1.2bn in cash in the Halifax? Jesus.

As for high yield VIP accounts...at least do some research, they don't come more VIP than Liz the 2nd and her bank Coutts is owned by the frigging taxpayer. Cracked mate.

 

If you think Ellis Short is only getting 6M a year interest your an idiot.
I provided high st. rates to demonstrate what the ordinary bloke in the street can get (But you knew that. Didn't you?)
Billionaires get far better rates still. Do some research mate. You may not look such a twat in future.

 

This is a fascinating article. There is nothing knee jerk about all of this. What I find fascinating is that Quinn and Bruce are heading to S. Korea. What are they going there for? Who are they meeting? What is the long term objective of trips such as this?

There is no broad appeal to Koreans, Indonesians or whereever for an English provincial club that has won nothing in 40 years, and who have spent the majority of that time yo-yoing between the top two divisions. What are the implications of this?

Ellis Short has stood firmly in the background whilst Quinn has overseen the stabilising of the club as a PL entity. That just takes time. It may mean just staying there, but the perception of stability can only be achieved by hanging on to that status.

Since Ellis Short came on board there's been huge speculation about his objectives and ambitions. Mr Short is no Mike Ashley and comparisons are risable and insulting. Anyone who thinks that in the short term from today (medium term in his view having owned the club for a couple of years outright), that Ellis Short will be happy with the performances and results achieved under Bruce is completely barking mad. Ellis Short is a winner and failure or wallowing around in the lower reaches is not an option. It's that simple, no ifs or buts.

To get where we are now, the chairmanship of Quinn and management of Bruce have been an expedient means for where he wants to the club to be. However, the events of this week are simply upping the ante in ways that will only become apparent. The "fair play' rules provide opportunity as well as a restriction. Any restriction which prevents spending will immediately be seen as an opportunity to gain the upper hand over clubs that may not be as financially astute.

If you are restricted in terms of income then there are ways round that. For example, Ellis's billions are now liquidated from his Korean investments. What will he do with it?

One way of pumping more of his own money into the club would be through "sponsorship" deals with Korean operations where there is also a market for football. Raise our profile there by effectively "sponsoring" his own club would increase the resources available to him for purchasing the best players and securing the services of top managerial and coaching talent. More resources, better results, better league position and a higher profile in places such as Korea. That's one way that this could pan out.

Just my thoughts.

 

I agree totally with your comments vegas - BUT it is very very difficult to make money from buying a football club as there is so much debt involved. Mike Ashley has spent very little and he's made a big loss from it as far as I can tell... Although Short's business acumen is a little better than Ashley's from what I have seen and read so far..

Time will tell - I hope you're right and I hope he makes money and makes a success of the club - but if he's in it solely to make money I fear for the club and our PL status as you have to spend big in this league to succedd (Sheik Mansour/Roman Abramovic style)

 

y the way - didn't mean to sound negative as I'm certain that what's happened over the past week or so is a good move for the club - just I have watched Mike Ashley try to make money by buying Newcastle and look what's happened to them and the way the club is run (from a football PoV not a business one!)

 

Right for starters 1.2bn will be making him a minimum of 120million a year in interest at least, that's based on sensible investments in things like property. I make 10% a year on my investments and I am no Billionaire.

I work for several millionaires, they is not where near Ellis Shorts league but a couple of them are very interesting characters. 1 of them works as a doorman (every weekend) and you would never know he is worth 10's of millions unless you had known him for a good length of time. Another guy I work for runs his business for the pleasure of it, its losing loads but he enjoys it, he is retired now but has plenty to fall back on so he keeps putting the money in.

Some of these guys have so much money they never need to work again, but they get bored so they do things for fun, for the challenge and the enjoyment. I am sure Short does want to make SAFC a success and I am also sure he knows he needs to pump more money in to get where he wants to be. What do you think Hedge funds are? Short knows business needs investment that's how he made his money. I suspect the 1.2bn valuation of his wealth is not that accurate either he probably has more than that but he is not going to go round telling the papers how much money he has.

So to sum up, he could lose 120million a year on SAFC and he would probably not even notice.

I think you could be right with the above. Short is well connected in Korea, this could be the very reason Ji was bought to give a viable reason for sponsorship from South Korea. Short is much smarter than all of us, he has the clubs best interests at heart (ie he wants it to be very successful) I am sure in the next 3 years we will see how it pans out and I think it will be to our success.