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The Coaches Voice - Lee Johnson

Discussion in 'Bristol City' started by wizered, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. Redprintt

    Redprintt Well-Known Member

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    Heresy.
     
    #21
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  2. oneforthebristolcity

    oneforthebristolcity Well-Known Member

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    Losing the key players and not replacing like for like seems the only answer......the argument will go on indefinitely about recruitment.
    To keep to principles & identities that Clifton refers to, for the likes of Barcelona & Liverpool surely comes far easier with the luxuries of, finance & successes that they've encountered over the years.
    Staying in the championship has been challenging enough for our club over the years..Thanks to LJ we've managed it for a few years now!! :emoticon-0148-yes:
    Buy the bracelet, trinkets come later!! :emoticon-0143-smirk
     
    #22
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  3. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    I supported our previous manager. it doesn’t mean I can’t criticise him or question his decisions.
     
    #23
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  4. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Why therefore did he not strive to make it continue? Because it was not his planned intent. The squad did not support it for a season.

    Consider who was the clubs most costly player. To continue to play in the same manner would have meant leaving out Diedhiou. We can also consider that Mr Johnson had also brought in target men like Duric. These players do not fit the close passing, high tempo in and out of possession picture at all.

    BCFC evidently plan recruitment pouring over players dna ... Who was Reids replacement in the event of injury? The answer is none of them possessed the athletic skill set. The football was based on circumstance (injury) and was never to be a long term, it was not the intent.
     
    #24
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
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  5. oneforthebristolcity

    oneforthebristolcity Well-Known Member

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    IMO, I'm not sure LJ wanted to setup as one identity or one style of play. I think he was trying to build a squad that had more than one string in it's bow,
    I actually think, if you have the budget, the players able to adapt and the know how, it's the best way. The likes of Barcelona and Man C have quite often been found out by always playing the same way...Being able to switch styles if plan A isn't working IMO is genius.
    Again IMO, We've never had the right or enough players at the same time, able to maintain that approach.
    I think GJ also tried to adapt his teams to do the same, things changed when he signed Adebola and we switched to only playing long ball..the problem was, we never switched it back!!
     
    #25
  6. Jiffie

    Jiffie Well-Known Member

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    Identity is about the club ethos, which for us was the 5 pillars (long since crumbled), it is long term goals, academy policy and transfer policy. Apart from academy policy something that is working really well, long term goals is just a pipe dream not supported by it's transfer policy, which is totally hit or miss and totally lacks proper scouting and unclear as to who actually decides on signings.

    As for style of play yes LJ was like any manager was looking to have the ability to change formations, the problem I believe was 3 fold, firstly like his father he too often played players out of position or asked them to adopt roles that were way out of their comfort zones, secondly I defy anybody to try to explain what our style was in his last season, it certainly didn't look like a style to go out and try to win games and thirdly and most importantly what brought us to last season and rolling into this season is highlighted and underlined above.

    IMHO had the boat been pushed out for a quality midfield 2 to 3 years ago, LJ would still be our manager, sadly he never seemed to see it as a priority, unlike the vast majority of fans who watch games week in and week out, it probably took the honest opinion of Gary Rowett after Millwall beat us for the penny to drop with a grumpy Holden, something that had been glaringly obvious to fans since January 2018 'we are vulnerable against physical teams'.

    Take a look at our defeats so far this season (and in recent seasons, there is a pattern) Middlesborough, Birmingham, Blackburn,Rotherham, Millwall, Preston (away) Luton and our performances against Barnsley, Wycombe and Portsmouth where we struggled to assume any control. To be honest we lost to Norwich because they were better and we were naive in the extreme and Reading took us apart, I thought we should that we could and should have got something at Bournemouth where we wasted a lot of great opportunities especially in the first half.
     
    #26
  7. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    I am sure Mr Johnson wanted to put into place an identity throughout the club as he stated that was his intent.

    Neither Barcelona or Man City or Bayern Munich or Liverpool play only way. They alter elements of the playing model not abandon it. Mr Johnson states in his own interview his best football was in 2017/18. He chose to abandon that football/ not plan it for the long term. The team never reached those heights again. Genius? No.

    Again IMO, We've never had the right or enough players at the same time... And that cannot happen if there is no vision of what the team is aspiring to be, strategy and supportive coaching philosophy in place. Putting in place keystone behaviours e.g. players will have this to play in a team that is aiming to be this can start at the outset.

    Mr Johnson had four years to put in place the identity he referred over seasons to, and these key principles. People cannot explain what the former or latter were. He didn't meet his own intentions.
     
    #27
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  8. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    I'm not disagreeing with this - it's true, but I would question whether any manager would willingly build his team and style of play around a player simply because he cost the most to buy - unless of course he was under considerable pressure from powerful individuals elsewhere, looking for a return on their investment(?)
    If this is true, then it begs a similar question around Palmer - if it's so important to play Fammy because he cost so much, rather than for footballing reasons, why then NOT play Palmer when he's costing £30k per week to sit on the bench? Did LJ (or the board) really want FD playing, but didn't care about Palmer? Again, it makes no sense to me at all - unless the intention was to SELL Fammy - in which case playing him puts him in the shop window.
    Whatever the reason, it's not the way to run a football team if getting to the Premiership is your main intention, but it is possibly one way to run it if balancing the books is your main priority over and above league success.
     
    #28
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  9. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    The football at its peak required mobility and the ability to move the ball quickly (Famara and Duric?). The loan in Ryan Kent found it difficult to play one, two, three touch and there was Diony who being charitable wasn't fit.

    Does that sound like Mr Johnson was meticulously planning to play the high pressing, high tempo etc game for the long term?
     
    #29
  10. Supcon72

    Supcon72 Well-Known Member

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    Clifton, I really think you're missing the points being made here. It seems you're intent on bashing LJ for not having one style, and one style only and sticking to it - which, if he had, and it didn't work, I suspect you would be equally as critical of. Even a golfer who bases their game on hitting long-distance tee shots and fairway shots recognise that approach doesn't work around the greens and has to mix it up.....

    You can't have a full team of 11 that press all game, you need a Fammy or Durjic, that in theory should have been able to get on the end of a good supply of balls that comes from a team that press well. I support the argument that their purchases did not work out as hoped, and you have to question the recruitment policy, buying from the French and Italian 2nd tiers, is not the same standard required in the English 2nd tier, not even close.

    In the past 2 seasons, I have seen so many crosses come in from the likes of Eliasson, only for Fammy to be nowhere near challenging for a header on goal. I'm sure LJ bought Fammy & Duric in the belief/hope, they would be a battering ram type CF, sadly neither could do it, although I think when fit Durjic hit that brief more than Fammy does. I think this was why Eliasson was played so infrequently as his crosses rarely met anyone, not his fault, but it became clear that to play Fammy, having wingers wasn't necessarily the answer as he is a bit too timid in the box, and rarely challenged the CBs.

    DH had the chance to fix this pre-season, if it was as obvious to everyone (except LJ) as you say it was, then why didn't DH see it as well? It's no wonder Eliasson wanted out, his talent was wasted at the club.
     
    #30

  11. oneforthebristolcity

    oneforthebristolcity Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most that's been said. Not as black and white IMO and as with everything, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
    With most manager appointments nowadays, time & instant results/progress is required by club's owners & fans.
    For a manager, your first 12-18 months are key. LJ's first few months, his job was to make sure we maintained championship status, whatever it took, it was about results.
    By achieving that goal, gave him a full season + to put together a team, in a style & type of football he wanted to play....It was going well IMO and as Clifton and many others have said was probably our best football. But we didn't achieve playoffs due to some bad results and injuries to good players and some at the end of that season key players were sold off....
    Regaining that style with different players was always going to take time, to progress further in the following season required results which is where it all went wrong..
    Again only IMO, by losing those key players and not knowing how long he had left at the club (which he wouldn't have known at the time) to change our fortunes, I believe he tried to bring it back, just trying to concentrate on results and as Clifton keeps reminding us, abandoned the quick pass & high press game he set out.
    Most of the players that came to the club from that point struggled to instantly gel...IMO.
     
    #31
  12. Jiffie

    Jiffie Well-Known Member

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    What Holden has changed is that now we have 2 strikers in Semenyo and Martin who generally have a very good first touch and balance and strength to hold the ball up and bring others into the game, something as we know Diedhiou does not.

    However the biggest mistake IMHO is the timing of the signing of Wells, it was a desperation signing of a great goalscorer whom everybody involved at the decision making level at the club must have known that we did not have the creativity at the club to play to his strengths, which is on the floor inside the box. The money would have better spent on a midfielder with those qualities.

    Seeing ODowda and Eliasson and our wings backs constantly firing in high crosses only for Diedhiou to get nowhere near and totally wasted on Wells was mind numbing and never going to work.

    The reason we have the frustrating and constant spectacle of playing some great passing football up to the opponents box only to see it back at the feet of Bentley is because, we still do not possess that player who can thread passes into the box for Wells, which makes Wells a very unhappy striker and us a team who do not score anywhere near enough goals.

    If this was a recent problem I would have sympathy for some of the views expressed but it's not it has been evident since January 2018, 3 years and counting and the lack of steel and organisation in midfield goes back even further and now we have an added problem of non athletic wing backs as well.
     
    #32
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
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  13. Red Alert

    Red Alert Well-Known Member

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    Lee liked the principled key letter U.

    A Centre back has the ball and gives it to a full back pushed up in a ever so modernly style. It doesnt matter that the ball wont go forward this is a modern game so Lee wants modern. The full back then gives the ball back to the centre back who moves the ball onto the other full back pushed up in a ever so modernly style completing the important modern U shape. This pleases Lee its modern so back goes the ball to the centre back who moves the globe to his other centre back who moves the ball onto the full back pushed up in a ever so modernly style.

    Double key U's.

    This is getting somewhere. This pleases Lee its modern. Lee points and encourages WE GO AGAIN so the players go again and again full back then gives the ball back to the centre back who moves the ball onto the centre back to pass to his full back pushed up in a ever so modernly style who goes back to the centre back, moving it across again to centre back to full back.

    WE GO AGAIN shouts Lee. So the players go again and the full back again gives the ball back to the other centre back who moves the ball onto the other full back pushed up in a ever so modernly style who goes back again to the centre back moving it across again centre back to full back.

    4U's!!

    Lee points and encourages WE GO AGAIN so the players go again and the full back then gives the ball back to the other centre back who moves the ball onto the other full back pushed up in a ever so modernly style who goes back to the centre back moving it across again centre back to full back.

    5 key U's.

    Lee is very pleased. Lee grabs the nearest person smaller than himself available and twirls him around in a victory salute. A hand is raised fingers and thumb outstretched indicating the success of the 5U's principle being been reached. Down goes Lees arm and the ball is thwacked up the park.

    The thwack reaches Diedhiou he cant control it and doesnt as the ball ricochets off his shin and face then off one of the opposing team for a throw in deep in the opponents half.

    Lee is concerned. Lee prowls the technical area. Will the plan be followed? Lee points to the centre back and encourages WE GO AGAIN the full back throws the ball back to the centre back who moves the ball onto the the centre back who plays out to the back pushed up in a ever so modernly style ..
     
    #33
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  14. Jiffie

    Jiffie Well-Known Member

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    If only this could be put down to hindsight, David Blunkett's guide dog could have told him that our midfield was lacking even with great individual players like Smith, Pack and Brownhill, they were incredibly inconsistent and rarely looked in sync and at best and as I said this can be traced back 3 years ago to January 2018.

    The sale of players is a red herring, because as I keep saying only Brownhill was sold in a January window and from the start of the 2017 season, we were always there or thereabouts come January and then it fell to pieces and the same is happening this season.

    So what could have 'perhaps' remedied this? ummm how about building on that good work by investing in a final push in the January window? instead of signing has beens, never were, players who had a great game on TV 3 season ago and kids etc., who's decision has that been in the past 4 seasons?, difficult to say but I think that we could make an educated guess.
     
    #34
  15. bcfcredandwhite

    bcfcredandwhite Well-Known Member

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    That was another weird one. Why get Kent on loan and then not play him - and get 'fined' by Liverpool for not playing him? What was the point in that loan? Did LJ want Kent and changed his mind when he arrived? I don't know but I doubt it. I guess that Ashton signed him and gave him to LJ but LJ didn't want him.
    I must admit I thought Kent was a very poor player. He seems to be doing ok at Rangers but he was godawful for us.
     
    #35
  16. Cliftonville

    Cliftonville Well-Known Member

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    Mr Johnson said he wanted to get Ryan Kent and that he was delighted to .. Mr Johnson left out Magnusson, moved Bryan back to left back to accommodate the player.

    What was the point in that loan? Crosses? More width. Perhaps.
     
    #36
  17. Redprintt

    Redprintt Well-Known Member

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    'Regaining that style with different players was always going to take time, to progress further in the following season required results which is where it all went wrong..
    Again only IMO, by losing those key players and not knowing how long he had left at the club'

    1For
    His contract was extended after the first of his losing runs.
    You took great glee telling me so.:emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #37
  18. Redprintt

    Redprintt Well-Known Member

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    <laugh><cheers>
     
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  19. oneforthebristolcity

    oneforthebristolcity Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but contracts are just pieces of paper RP, means nothing nowadays as we see with most clubs
     
    #39
  20. realred1952

    realred1952 Well-Known Member

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    pandora
     
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