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Match Day Thread Everton v Southampton 01/03/21 8PM Sky Sports

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Saintmagic, Feb 25, 2021.

  1. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    Kaito, I think you are being pretty rude here, and suggest you read what you have written later when you have calmed down.

    I will address your comments:

    Billy, Ralph has managed to get the most out of the players he has, and that is precisely why Saints were sat on top of the league a while back. We have never been in that position before and many of us won't let the current poor run of results diminish that. We are crippled by injuries, suffered some criminally bad refereeing decisions and it is highly possible that quite a few key players have been badly affected by the situation we are in.

    Ralph has got the most out of these players. He has also got the worst out of them, and there are reasons like injuries, VAR, loss of form. Ralph is paid to sort things out when they go wrong. I have questioned his stubborness, in formation and playing staff he is using. I tend to agree with Lincoln in that Ralph gets the plaudits, but cant be Q'd when things arent going well. I am not, in fact no one I have seen on this form, is suggesting we should have won every game we have lost, but the run we are on isnt just bad, it is absolutely appalling. You last sentence - the manager has a responsibility the help out of form players, to play better.

    You should just come right out and say what you think about Ralph because you often ask what others think regarding how long 'we' should give Ralph before making a change. Are you hinting that you really do feel Ralph should be sacked but you really don't want to say it in case you take a crap load of flack? At least Lincoln has the balls to say what he feels and is prepared to stand up to the inevitable abuse he receives. I don't agree with everything he posts but I do respect him for having the courage of his convictions.

    I think you are taking the piss with your first sentence, and this one really irked me. I have said, numerous times, that we should keep Ralph as he deserves the chance to put this right, and he has been great before. This is a forum, where people debate, so to ask me why I am asking how long should Ralph get is pretty obvious - it is to generate debate on how others feel about Ralph, and yep, how long he has got. If you want a forum where people are always saying yes, and never questioning stuff - then go join a church...

    I said I dont think he should be sacked, but i genuinely dont know who long this can go on for, playing poorly and loosing, or drawing the odd game in 11. I couldnt give a **** about taking flack if I have an unpopular opinion. **** me, I said my piece on the Politics and Covid thread to not have to worry about that. This comment really surprised me, and I expected better from you, as I have always felt you have a balanced view. Could it be your own disillusionment of our situation has got to you, and I was an easy target? Taking about balls - jesus Kaito, you really got me with that one. Im not going to say what I think about that, let's just leave it there, as I feel youre trying to provoke an argument.


    Saints are involved in a massive root and branch rebuilding process but it ain't going to happen overnight and right now it is hard to feel positive with so much going wrong, but it will change for the better. This is the time for everyone to pull together and to take the bad results on the chin without falling apart like a soggy paper bag. Yes Ralph has undoubtedly made mistakes but who hasn't? We are all in this together and it hurts to be where we are but we are not giving up or wondering whether to bin off one of the best managers we have ever had

    We are rebuilding, and I have been positive about our recruitment and process. I wont be positive about leaving 2 full backs and playing a CB there instead of Jack or Ramsey. Again, I think this is where Ralph is being stubborn.

    I dont agree now is the time for everyone to pull together. Perhaps you have joined that church group after all and are currently round a camp fire singing Kumbehare me Lord <laugh>. I think it is ok for people to view things differently. We all want the same thing in the end, but we can disagree on how we are getting there. And some of us are wondering if Ralph is the right man, right now. You cant speak for everyone, I am Qg it, but think he is the right man. Im just saying if the situation hasnt changed say after the Brighton match im not sure i still will be :emoticon-0148-yes:

     
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  2. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    No, there hasn't been a viable alternative put forward, but I haven't read all relevant threads being busy with the move to Houters.
     
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  3. Kaito

    Kaito Well-Known Member

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    Billy, if you believe Saints should stick with Ralph, why the **** do you keep asking how long should we give him? What is the point of that? Asking whether Ralph should be binned off if the current results continue beyond the Brighton game without saying who would replace him, or the benefits of doing that is pointless. I don't mind if you see things differently to me and I am happy to debate with you but I do get riled when you sit and snipe at things without coming up with a viable solution. We can all criticise things but without a clear workable alternative it is just a waste of time.

    I think you are the one who is being rude here in suggesting I should join a church, and ramping up the insulting rhetoric is not needed. I agree with you and disagree with you on many things and today I guess I just had a belly full of you taking pointless pot shots at things. You carry on as you were if it makes you happy.
     
    #623
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  4. LincolnSaint

    LincolnSaint Well-Known Member

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    I can't and won't speak for Billy, but in my opinion the questions of "whos the alternative?" Can be a bit frustrating. We're all aware that Gao is not going to spend a penny and is possibly the worst owner in the league, so those of us not behind Ralph know that it's pointless even suggesting other managers. We'd be lucky to afford Gary bloody Neville!

    But....We're all frustrated, we're all sick of the run we're on, we all want to go back to that winning feeling. We just have very different opinions on who's head it falls. Most think we'll be able to turn it around under Ralph, I'd love to be wrong.
     
    #624
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  5. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member

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    I think I must be in a very small group of fans who are not frustrated. For me being a fan is having good runs and bad runs. But we’re two wins from safety and another two wins from a cup final. We have 3 or 4 key players on their way back to boost the team. Changing the manager and / or the owner will achieve nothing other than upset stability and probably result in 4 or 5 of our best players losing interest in ‘the project’ and leaving at the end of the season. You have to endure the difficult times to appreciate the good times. We are still a club in transition under Ralph. Will be for a couple more years yet. Keep the faith!
     
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  6. AberdeenSaint

    AberdeenSaint Well-Known Member

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    This `Everton were in first gear` really is nonsense. There were as good as they could be on the night (and they weren`t much better than us, if at all) - does anyone think they would have passed up a chance to rattle in a load of goals if they could ?. We nearly nicked a point at the end FFS. Small margins and all that.
     
    #626
  7. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I do agree, though I'd change the ownership like a shot.

    I know, careful what you wish for etc, but we really do need new blood at the very top, and someone invested in the club a little more than it being a vessel to keep cash in.
     
    #627
  8. Saints FC 76

    Saints FC 76 Well-Known Member

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    I said before the Leeds game that our situation would get worse before it gets better. That was mainly because I couldn't see us getting anything other than one win from Leeds, Everton, Sheff Utd and Man City.

    We are on course for that, so while it's obviously not ideal, the bad results are a little easier to take when you expect them.

    Now if we don't pick up a decent amount of points from the next five or so, Ralph could well walk/be sacked, although I still think the board will and should stick with him.

    However Saturday is versus the worst team in the league and one of the worst in PL history. We couldn't ask for a better fixture. Hopefully KWP and Diallo return from injury, so I'm optimistic. If they do return, we arguably have four starters back in comparison to last night's lineup, and it would help us going forward:

    KWP > Bednarek
    Diallo > Armstrong
    Armstrong > Redmond
    Minamino > Djenepo

    Apart from City next week, we now have a good run of fixtures against teams in and around us. We also have less mid-week games so we should be less fatigued and others like Walcott will return soon. Debate whether Ralph should be sacked then (which arguably is still too soon given the woeful backing he's had).

    PS - I'm not sure I've seen Redmond play worse for Saints than he did last night. He really needs a few games out the team.
     
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  9. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    A viable alternative to what - the manager? So what?
     
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  10. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    Because this is a ****ing forum to debate **** Kaito - it really isnt difficult to understand.

    You still dont seem to listen that I am saying (and have done numerous times) we should stick with him, as he deserves to turn this around. You really seem to have it in for me today, so Im not sure what I can say to you today to help the situation. Im not trying to change your view, it seems people get really ****ing twitchy when people, who are allowed a view, mention this.

    I said about the church in a light hearted manner, if it caused offence then i apologise, but it was just a joke. If you still want to take issue with it, then so be it.

    Why do people need to name a replacement? Maybe that is also a talking point, by means of debate - but you dont seem able to do so today. Surely we cant keep losing each game and do nothing about it? Or would you continue with Ralph if he loses each game until the end of the season? We all have boundaries on what is acceptable, i was reaching out to understand where people's boundaries are regarding results.

    I havent even taken pot shots at anything. I stated my ****ing case - that he should stay to put it right, that i will review after the Brighton game.

    Stop making **** up that isnt there.

    EDIT: Also, talking about a providing alternatives - where are yours about how else we should be playing or how we get out of this run - it does work both ways...
     
    #630

  11. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    So, this whole debate cos me and a few others have just raised a Q, that is all.

    I have stated multiple times Id keep Ralph, I was just seeing where the barometer was.

    We are in transition, totally agree, but no one seems to answer how long they would be prepared to keep this run going, before thinking we need to take some action.

    I think when we get KWP and Diallo, and Walcott also, we will start to look different as it does change the way we play, but Ralph hasnt helped our situation with how he is setting the team up.
     
    #631
  12. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I do tend to agree that this 'there's nobody else' argument is a bit facile. There are plenty of people that would jump at the chance of managing a premier league club, that we could hire, and that might even be good (though our hiring of managers that are out of work does rather narrow that field).

    The point isn't that there's nobody else out there, for me it's that there are countless reasons that we should stick by Ralph, first of which being that he's an excellent manager. We're just not a particularly excellent club/team.
     
    #632
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  13. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    For me, we keep him until the end of the season. If we're relegated, having got no more points and no more wins, then yes, of course, questions need to be asked.

    But I don't think any of those scenarios are a possibility. Even if we did get relegated, I'd probably keep him. The *only* situation in which I think a change might be worthwhile would be if he's essentially had enough and burns himself out. He's an emotional old bean is Ralph, and it might get to the point where all of his hair has been pulled out. I just don't see that happening though, despite the current run of horrific form.
     
    #633
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  14. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reasoned post!

    I completely agree with you, but also believe he could have done a few things differently - firstly not playing Bednarek at RB, which ive said many times before (see Kaiot - reasoned info with evidence of alternative as I previously said Ramsey/Jack).

    But I still think there may come a point when enough is enough. If this run did continue, the club would be negligent if they didnt take action, as a duty to shareholders! Im hoping it wont come to that, dont think it will come to that, but surely it is a consideration, you know at some point.
     
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  15. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I think he'd be the first to admit to the possibility of having done things differently. Though as with all these things, it's supposition. They may well have been worse. Who knows.
     
    #635
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  16. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    To be fair back Billy, read how many times I’ve suggested tweaks and changes in style this last few weeks. I just don’t need to do that in a way that attacks or suggests the manager needs changing or is crap.
     
    #636
  17. Kaito

    Kaito Well-Known Member

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    Billy, cut the aggression and calm down a little. No one is getting twitchy and I do not have it in for you. I don't much like the 'when does Ralph get binned off' question that you keep repeating because it just doesn't serve any purpose at all. You and me can't change things, we don't have a say in any of it and there's just no point in it. A debate is when people with alternative views discuss things. A debate is not asking questions that no one can answer with any certainty.

    No one here knows what is going on at Saints, other than we are rebuilding the club from top to bottom and that is going to take years. Along the way we are going to get hammered, hammer other teams, loose players and gain players and if and when we eventually start getting to where the club wants to be, we will look very different to what we are now.

    Joining in with your speculation for a moment, if we don't win any more games this season we might very well get relegated, but we might draw them all so we will likely survive. Maybe. Would I support the club sacking Ralph if we get relegated? It depends on how it happens, what the reasons are and what the alternative is. So you see, there is nothing but ifs, buts and maybes and a whole load of 'I haven't a bloody clue' out there, which all adds up to a complete waste of time.

    It's very easy to pick holes in what Ralph does, the way the team is performing and the recent dire results but without knowing all the facts, none of it is more than guess work. I'm as pissed off with it all as much as everyone else but I am aware that posing questions that just can't be answered is just a waste of time. I'm done with this Billy so if you want to shake on it and move on then I'm happy with that.
     
    #637
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  18. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    Kaito, please dont do that passive aggressive thing, of swearing in posts to me, is directly aggressive (not having balls...), and when it comes back, you ask me to cut the aggression - that is entirely disingenuous.

    If you dont like people raising Qs about this subject, after the run we have then i really dont understand what you expect from a forum to debate Saints. It literally is beyond me.

    I already over it with you on this topic, so happy to move on, but dont pose Qs in your reply and then say agree to disagree.

    So, let's move on :emoticon-0148-yes:
     
    #638
  19. Franny's Tache

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    We can moan all we want that VAR has gone against us or that injuries have played a part in our bad run but guess what! VAR has played a part in a lot of other games & nearly all teams are having massive issues with fitness, injuries etc. None of them have lost 9 games on the spin, none of them have lost 9nil twice in 2 seasons (or indeed ever) & if they did then their managers no matter how good they are would be coming under huge pressure from fans & board alike & rightly so. It seems that Ralph is untouchable in some fans eyes & they are either unable or unwilling to place any responsibility for this terrible run of form on Ralph's shoulders. don't get me wrong i think Ralph has been brilliant for us but I get the impression that he is either incapable of changing how we play or just too damn stubborn to do so. He said last night that the front players are not scoring enough, guess what Ralph that is your job to change things. our defence is not as good as it should be, again Ralph this is for you to sort out. whether or not the players are tired or mentally not up to the task again this falls at the feet of the manager. every time I see him on the touchline recently he looks downtrodden & dejected, this will undoubtedly trickle down to the players, it seems that there is no-one mentally strong enough to take this team of players by the scruff of the neck & give them the shake up they need, again this is something the manager should be doing & yet it seems Ralph is either incapable or unable to do. maybe we need some new blood in the backroom staff to assist Ralph with the weak parts of his management skills.
    If we don't get a win against Shef Utd & another 4 or 5 points from the subsequent 4 games then I believe it may be time for him to step aside.
     
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  20. Saints FC 76

    Saints FC 76 Well-Known Member

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    Amongst all the arguing, Newcastle have announced that Almiron and Saint-Maximin will be injured until April. Don't wish ill on other players, but that will damage them with Wilson already out.

    Hopefully we won't need to rely on other teams losing, but you never know.
     
    #640
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