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Match Day Thread Everton v Southampton 01/03/21 8PM Sky Sports

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by Saintmagic, Feb 25, 2021.

  1. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    I know you have, so have I Fats, and it is ok for people to raise the Q.

    I havent said he should be sacked once. I raised the Q.

    I have suggested there may come a time when it needs thinking about - it is a relevant topic as the run we are on.

    I havent said he is crap, i have used, as others have, he has a stubborn tendency.

    I have stated I would keep Ralph (etc. etc.), but i would review after Brighton.

    On your first sentence, people air their views in different ways, so whilst some like you may say it one way, I may write it down another, and someone else differently again.

    Seriously though, not digging you with this btw, this feels like being hounded because it is not a popular Q to raise.

    Anyhow - im done for today, this Ralph situation is getting ridiculous and turning into a mountain from a molehill.

    Catch you later.
     
    #641
  2. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    I do try hard to not get frustrated with people’s views and find a way to word mine clearly.

    this is how I see it:

    ralph came in and tried to change our style (good, as were were ugly).

    it worked only occasionally and he reverted to different formations away from his first choice one. We were hit and miss, for about a year, but he did enough for us to survive and then hang in their for the first part of that next season.

    a year ago he had a break due to lockdown and clearly spent all that time working very hard himself and with the players on how he wants them to play. The change was drastic and very clear (we were the 4th best team in the league for 2020)

    the new season started and after two games, he had us playing well and getting good results with a mostly available squad. We were the talk of the town and even went top of the league. He was making the most of the tools he had (he had most available). He proved he can deliver.

    Then gradually, we started to see injuries and suspension and the same players not being able to be rested and although initially we were still playing well, the results starts to slide. On the 4th Jan we beat Liverpool to go to 29 points and 6th in the league.

    In the games since then, we have not played so well, at times poorly and at times not as bad as some make out. More players for injured. More players who perhaps should have been rotated couldn’t be and our thin squad was exposed. Ralph no longer had enough tools to do the job. Now I think we could have changed our style more; pressed less; played longer more; and other changes, however Ralph stuck with what he taught those lesser players all season. I understand that, even though I would have changed some things still myself.

    Here we are in a bad run and people like you have openly said he isn’t good enough and should be sacked. Yet all the facts point to him not having all the tools to do the job we want. That might go on for the rest of the season and if we get to the 38 game mark with 35-38 points and still in the league, then we have to hope the board back him. If they don’t, then we have to hope he is patient or that the Board know of someone else who can do it on a shoe string.

    I just don’t see how fans expect the current situation to translate into Ralph being a bad manager and if we do change, I’ll ask not who they expect next as that seems to upset people, but what they expect to be different?

    Laces summed it up; none of it is black and white.
     
    #642
  3. fatletiss

    fatletiss Well-Known Member

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    and guess what Billy... I feel the same way every time I put across a view to answer that question. You and others raised the question and me and others countered it. No hounding out, yet if we counter it we get accused of hounding people out. That’s not really on. I know you didn’t say he was crap. Don’t assume every word is aimed at you.

    My very simplified position is this: I believe we have an excellent coach. I think we have a poor owner and a shocking financial position which is the root cause of where we are now. If we’d had a deeper squad (not kids like Valery and Vokins), then I doubt we’d be in this situation.
     
    #643
  4. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member

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    Errr... I wasn't' disagreeing with you. Just picking up on the fact that most fans are frustrated at the moment and clearly not enjoying watching the football. Of course there's a debate. That's why we come on the forum.

    How long will the transition last? For me there's at least two more years before we stabilise. We've brought in 4 top players under Ralph. Assuming 4 more in the summer and a couple from the academy, I think he will be close to having the team he wants - but still lacking back ups in every position. It's then a question of getting regular European football to generate the necessary income to start building up the size of the squad so we can effectively rotate and keep everyone happy. That's the tricky part - we've been close to that under Koeman and then he screwed us by running off to Everton and leaving us back at square 1.
     
    #644
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  5. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    Fair points well made.

    I dont say you about hounding out, my irk is really with Kaito and his posts today on this matter, ive never mentioned it prior to today.

    Sorry if it seemed i was saying that about you and others, because it really didnt come across that way.

    Deeper squad - we have moved on c. 40 players, and Ralph wanted a smaller squad, which i guess makes it easier for him to train his methods. I know this stems from investment, which we lack, so until that changes I guess we may experience this for longer, which incidentally im fine with. Im mid 40s have always supported Saints and am used to this.

    I hope ive never come across as someone who feels entitled, like we should be winning games, because we have no divine right.

    All ive done is raise a Q about Ralph, mentioned he isnt blameless in our run, i cant believe the stick that came from it!
     
    #645
  6. Negative Creep

    Negative Creep Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Mowgli, I wasnt suggesting you were btw, i just quoted your part and raised that first. soz!

    I also agree with your timeline on when things can look up, but this is massively dependant on new owners. I think by the ned of the year, that may happen.
     
    #646
  7. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely this. There is a huge gulf between us and the top four clubs. When Man Utd signed Pogba, they balanced the purchase price in worldwide shirt sales with in about 72 hours. We could never do that. We have fans who demand an owner put their own money in but balk at buying a replica shirt because they think it's a rip off. Go figure!

    No, the self sustaining model will always be the one that works for Southampton, irrespective of ownership.
     
    #647
  8. LincolnSaint

    LincolnSaint Well-Known Member

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    Fair questions.

    Firstly, I'll admit that I'm very much guilty of seeing things in black and white, always have been.

    What would I expect to be different with the mystery manager who could save us? Firstly some flexibility. From what I've seen (and granted its only from the bloody telly, you get a better feel there in person if you know what I mean) Ralph has his game plan and simply will not tailor that against different opposition, or indeed tactical changes from the opposing manager. We're incredibly one dimensional, and truthfully most managers seem to have sussed us out.

    I'd like a manager who can get a ****ing grip of the players mentality. To install some grit, some vigour (not totally blaming Ralph for this, its been an issue for everyone post Puel)

    I'd like a manager who actually plays players according to their position.

    I'd like a manager who can grind a result out, or even better one who gives me faith he can switch stuff up a bit when going a goal down. This is Ralph's biggest weakness in my opinion.

    I'd like a manager who doesn't pick Redmond

    Ralph is an ok manager, I don't hate him, I don't rate him. He's not Pellegrino, but he's not Koeman either. I can deal with "ok." I'm a saints fan after all, what I can't deal with is just how bad it is when we do dip. He sets all the wrong records.
     
    #648
  9. mowgli

    mowgli Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of new owners if only to appease the fans and instil a sense of unity that is sadly lacking at the minute. But I'm not expecting any new investment for the reasons I've already stated.
     
    #649
  10. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Again, there's the grey that sits here though. You're absolutely right in terms of our position, but that doesn't negate the fact we'd be a lot better off with an owner committed to improving the club, not just sitting on it.
     
    #650
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  11. LincolnSaint

    LincolnSaint Well-Known Member

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    The mans a prick. Buying a football club as a safe bank account in case you fall foul of your government has got to be a first. Only bloody Saints <doh>
     
    #651
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  12. ......loading......

    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    Ralph has a good football ideology. Ralph seems to coach a good style and has had some success with individuals. Ralph is a nice guy. Ralph has not got a lot to work with.

    Ralph does seem to lack an alternative approach. Ralph's style does take a lot out of players and becomes less effective as the core of the team is injured or fatigued. Ralph has not discovered the substitution law.
     
    #652
  13. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    You're right, he's not Koeman. He's a lot better.

    We ground out a result against Liverpool by the way, and really, being top of the league isn't "the wrong records", it's just a record you're ignoring.
     
    #653
  14. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Now this we do agree on! :biggrin:
     
    #654
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  15. LincolnSaint

    LincolnSaint Well-Known Member

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    Come on! Beating teams by 6-1, 8-0, 5-0 and getting into Europe vs two 9-0 defeats and our worst ever league run?

    Whats the most goals we've scored in a game under RH?
     
    #655
  16. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Give Ralph what Koeman had to work with. I would love to see that.

    RK has been pony everywhere he's been, bar Saints. Ralph hasn't. That says a lot.
     
    #656
  17. ......loading......

    ......loading...... 25 undefeated

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    The side Koeman had was the best Saints team I can remember. The team we have now is not much different to the sides we had in the early 2000s. Maybe slightly worse.
     
    #657
  18. LincolnSaint

    LincolnSaint Well-Known Member

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    It'd sure be interesting to see
     
    #658
  19. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually salivating at the idea of a front line of Pelle, Mane and Tadic working under Ralph's guidance. Along with Virgil.

    Champions League.
     
    #659
  20. Number 1 Jasper

    Number 1 Jasper Well-Known Member

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    Anyway peeps .
    Looking on the bright side .
    ]are we relegated yet ? :emoticon-0110-tongu
     
    #660

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