Match Day Thread Vs Chelsea (H)

That doesn't excuse lack of trying.

And if it did the players should be handing their wages back.

Losing games is one thing, losing without trying is a disgrace.

And writing off a season for the owners would be a ludicrous notion when there is big money at stake that would have a major impact on the clubs future. There is no way FSG would be happy with no CL at least next season.

 

I don’t believe that for one second. We were and still (just) are in with a shout for a fourth place. CL is massive for this club. For the money, for the players, for the fans , for top player recruitment. Klopp giving up? This is the mentality of losers and he definitely is a winner. He just seems too stubborn. He has made a lot of mistakes this season because lots of things have happened which he has not come across before.

 

Would tonight be a bad time to remind you all of a comment made about Klopp by Astro?

Not to worry though, at his previous club the players started to play again once he announced he was leaving

 

And we are as close to getting relegated as Dortmund were that season.

 

relegated from Europe mate and for a club of your recent standing that's poor.

 

Nah don’t think I agree with that. I think we have to look at the bigger picture.

we’ve had injuries in one area which does affect our front line.

Normally we have VVD and Gomez with pace pushed on high. Fabinho to help cover. You have TAA and Robbo pushed 20 yards up the field and Hendo and fab and Gini closing down midfield to win ball high and punishing teams up high.

now without vvd and Gomez, defence is deeper, TAA and Robbo are deeper, teams can pass out. Thiago & Jones aren’t as good as Hendo and fab in closing down and putting pressure on opposition midfielders on the ball.

Now even taking that away, you then lose vvd the person, the organiser, the second captain.

you then lose Hendo who is the actual captain. Can’t put into stats how much the captain and his influence has on the team.

Add in no fans which is affecting us, and a lot of teams to be fair (more away wins in league than home this season) but clearly having big impact on us.

Add other injuries across the team meaning unable to rotate quite as much, more games in short space with less rotation means more injuries, more fatigue, which means less energy which means less pressing which means less high turnovers which means less of a goal threat.

it’s annoying watching pundits say how we still have the front 3 so goal scoring shouldn’t be an issue, but in same way defending starts at the front, goal scoring starts at the back.

And finally add in that last season was such a huge high. After 30 years the motivation to win the title was huge and subconsciously must have dipped slightly this year

assessment of our season done from me

 

Shame you can’t play us every week eh

 

What I find strange is that VVD was a key cog of a finely honed machine. We all knew that the team would not be the same without him at CB. But we also had Fabinho and Henderson who were key too in midfield. Klopp moved these two midfielders into CB positions so that instead having one problem area we now have 2 problem areas. This was made worse because we tried to play exactly the same as if we had the same record breaking machine of last season. The team is no longer the same and opposition teams are able to pick on the apparent weaknesses. On top of that the front three are having nightmare matches. Mane is really off his game, Salah had to be subbed (although I didn’t think he was the worst player) Firminho is on a poor run.

Klopp has to try a different system. He has had enough time to continue with the old system.

 

A ****ing quality post, yet i still have an issue with it in that it makes no mention of momentum. It staggers me how much people underestimate the impact of momentum on a teams performance, no matter how much people are paid/trophies won/ deals done/ targets reached/whatever has been achieved in the past etc all this pales into comparison with recent history/form/ perceptions of luck etc. yes the history can help with the psychology but recent stuff can be a much bigger influence on performance. If you add that to the points that IBWT made then maybe we aren't doing that poorly after all.

 

Both you and IBWT give possible explanations on how we’ve arrived at this point. But the reality is that all clubs suffer injuries and absences of key and crucial players. They have to cope. If suffering 5 consecutive defeats at home and not scoring an open goal, is not doing too badly I would hate to see us doing badly!

it is clear that we had a choice of how to cope with VVD’s absence. We could have left the midfield and attack mostly unchanged and used Phillips or another of our reserves with Fabinho as holding MF. It may be sacrilege to even question Klopp’s judgement but I don’t think the incredible slide from record breaking invincible team to record breaking poor team was inevitable. I kept hoping and saying we will come good the next match since New Year. I still think if we arrest the slide by trying a different system we could still sneak a CL place. Even a Europa place is better than no European football at all. Which top player will want to join us when we can’t offer them that, especially that many of the key players are looking elsewhere or are on the wrong side of 30 years?

 

Read what I ****ing wrote before you jump down my throat. I never said I was calling for him to be sacked. I said managers have been sacked for less. Look at Lampard, but I know that's how Chelsea rock and roll. You know full well whose head tends to roll in these situations and anyway how do you know he hasn't had enough and won't resign because of the ****e he's managing? None of us do. What we won before won't count because seeing it all with the likes of Rafa and Rodgers it's the ones holding the purse strings who make the decisions. All I'm saying is if this continues, regardless of what we've achieved before, we may well see another casualty we don't want.

We're in a severe decline here and I'm sorry to have to break it to you but it's not just about the injuries or no fans. Something else must be going on behind closed doors we're not party to. The CB situation has been an issue but how the **** has that impacted on Salah, Mane or Firmino turning to utter ****? One ****ing shot on goal last night. And we're not the only club with no fans in the stadium.

 

Remote. Very remote. Especially if we keep playing a high line and 2-5-3 when we have the ball as if Virgil and Joe were still there. The front three, who used to be the epitome of the sum total being greater than the individual parts are now the epitome of the opposite. No point as it is playing 4-3-3.

But we will, because evidently, we don't know any other way, which is why that this team, fabulous as they were for three seasons, were not truly great: they had two great seasons in the Prem, and will probably be the only team to ever get 97 points and not win the league, and two CL finals and the CWC too and all that. But 'Great' teams can adapt. They broke the 30-year duck, so to us they are legendary. But they don't compare to the teams of the 70's and the early 80's, and that is the truth. In fact, this team this season isn't even as good as Rafa's team in 2005 that was ****e in the league but somehow won the CL.

If Klopp can't get them to adapt to a different formation we have to ask ourselves this question - is it Klopp's intransigence, or is it because the players themselves aren't good enough to adapt? Personally, I'm believing the latter, and that should stifle any talk about this team being truly great.

 

If you played us at Anfield atm you'd wallop us. Easily.

 

It's true that you're not the only club with no fans in the stadium but it is having more of an impact at Liverpool than at some other stadiums. At stadiums which are full of prawn sandwich eating happy clappers it doesn't make much difference. It's no coincidence that clubs like Schalke 04, Feyenoord, Glasgow Celtic and BVB are all suffering in the same way this season. The Germans call matches in empty stadiums 'Geisterspiele' which means ghost matches ie. without soul or spirit. To be honest, I don't really take any results seriously this season as a result. Kloppo thrives on the interraction with fans and when it isn't there then there is little left. Having lived in Germany for 30 years, and taken an interest in German football, it has been noticeable that Kloppo is an 'impact' manager but does not have a long shelf life - and there is never a plan B. The long term encouragement for Liverpool is Steve Gerrard's development at Ibrox because Kloppo's successor may be ready and waiting.

 

Fans obviously play a big part but lets be honest, we have min 4-5 people missing from our first XI. That's literally approx 50% of the team. As others have mentioned, how can anyone be expected to perform when you have 20 CB combinations, a midfield and front 3 which are being run into the ground.

Whilst I expected a drop off in terms of points and performances, we should not be losing every game pretty much. And for me, Klopp needs to take responsibility because there is a real stubbornness from him where he really does not want to deviate from his trusted 433, even though we have seen success when we mix things up (see West Ham and Sheff United). Taking Salah off last night when he is the only one of the front 3 who is remotely close to scoring or creating. And then bringing on Milner. Seriously, this was awful in game management.These things are within our control and I will put some blame on Klopp for it. Now this is not me saying I want Klopp gone but he needs to find answers quickly. The 433, this whole system and style DOES NOT WORK with this group of players have at our disposal.

Unfortunately, I am conceding top 4 this season which is embarrassing. This is not because the teams around us are significantly better than us - its because I almost have zero faith in us turning it around until we get VVD, Gomez and Matip back into defence.

 

Mostly agree, but don't forget that we were 'only' missing Virgil and Hendo from the XI who played Chelsea at their ground back in September.

 

True but bear in mind that Fabinho at CB is not Fabinho at DM. We have integrated a new 20 year old CB into a makeshift defence, whilst our midfield 3 is a completely new trio (Jones and Thiago are still new to the system). So on paper, yes we have the players but it's completely different to how we played over the past 2 years.

With that said, we should be doing better and we should be trying something different. Maybe a 4231. At the moment, Bobby and mane are painfully out of form but their place in the team is not under threat.

 

Agree, and I've been saying that all season. But he played at CB against Chelsea at The Bridge, albeit alongside Virgil. I'm convinced it was that which allowed our stingy owners to think they could get away with only three recognised cb's, two of them injury-prone, then do **** all about it when the Jan window opened,

 

Good point! I suppose VVD + another will still be a good pairing!

The owners really let us down in January. That's not to deflect from our own shortcomings but failing to buy proper centre backs on the 1st January is what derailed our season. Even the journalists were saying that the players and staff were confused as to why we didn't bring in anyone in. To compound things further, we had to offload a genuine attacking option in Taki (who could have rotated with Bobby) to pay for Kabak and Davies. That's is pathetic IMO. We hardly invested any money since we won the CL. I know the argument is that we didn't sign anyone after the CL but we won the PL - true but imagine a bit of investment to beef up the squad and we could have won the lot that season.

 

5th consecutive defeat at Anfield in the week Saint passes away and The King 'celebrates' his 70th birthday. That should tell you everything. No commitment to the club at the moment.