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Off Topic Summer News

Discussion in 'Plymouth' started by notDistantGreen, May 10, 2021.

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  1. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that, good luck to the lad.

    More news on the share issue:

    https://www.pafc.co.uk/news/2021/may/potential-share-issue/

    The value of an Argyle share is anyone's guess. Since the club has significant historic losses in its balance sheet, equivalent to c 50% of its share capital, and the club is acknowledged to be not profitable currently in an industry where 70% of its participants routinely make losses, the technical value is "the square root of bugger all" but that's not how football works as we know. Simon Hallett has been buying his shares at their face value of £1 each. Therefore, if he's brave enough to pay a £1 for bugger all, then so should the fans.

    If Simon Hallett wanted to reduce his shareholding to let's say 76%, which is the magic number to retain full control, then he could issue a maximum of around 6m shares, putting £6m in to the club.

    We know we can take 40,000 to Wembley. Each of those would have to buy 150 x £1 shares to make the 6 million. That's not going to happen. What would be reasonable? Two million shares, 40,0000 people, £50 each on average? That's still a lot for ordinary folks isn't it?
     
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    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  2. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    It's a lot for some and not a lot for others so there isn't a definitive answer to that question. I think those that still can't afford it can be made up by those that can buying a minimum double lot. However, your 40,000 number is way over the top as a number. We may take a load to Wembley but the majority of those are not fan enough to contribute cash to the pot. I think you may get 10,000 buying in on a good day at best. If they all bought in at 100 shares then that's a mere £1m. Not quite the £6m you quote above. Argyle fans are a funny lot though. You can never quite read what they will or won't do except they haven't been known for overwhelming generosity.
     
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  3. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    I was just trying to work out for my own satisfaction what this could bring in and whether it has the potential to let Simon Hallett recoup some the cash he's put in to cover ongoing losses and of course Covid, He put in £3.5m just on that last item, which can't have been part of his plan when he first bought into the club!

    I used the 40,000 as a sort of outer limit. Whilst it does include some just there for a day outat Wembley, the active fan base is a lot bigger than the sort of 10k average home gate. That's because about half are season ticket holders and the other 5k are largely people like me, who go regularly but not to every game. So that apparent 5k is actually 10 or 15k going to a half or a third of the games. Then there is the dispora: especially the large number of expat Greens living in and around London. They probably go to Home Park only rarely but are real fans and may have more money than locals!

    My conclusion is that this could yield a million or two, which is useful in monetary terms but not revolutionary and it isn't sufficient to get Simon Hallett back to where he thought he'd be, so there he may well consider bigger league investors. I trust him to pick the right people and I understand why he'd put more cash at risk than he meant to. He's made it clear he wants to remain as the controlling shareholder, so he's not intending to go anywhere.
     
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  4. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    I thought Hallett had converted his £3.5m into shares previously so by that virtue wasn't really looking for it to be returned. Can't say I'm up to speed on big business mind so I can never quite get my head around all the options and figures. I also thought that the object of the sale would be to add to the reserve pot of just in case situations to ensure Admin wasn't going to happen again.

    The problem is that the 40.000 number you quoted should be the sort of numbers we could muster in an emergency or funding drive. However, we all know the famous Argyle fan stereo. Plenty advising a splashing of cash without actually being prepared to back any of it financially themselves. From a personal point of view I am unlikely to buy shares. My son on the other hand might do just that. It's hard to justify handing over money from a joint pot at home when the other hand in the pot doesn't quite see why you should. I put money into the buckets regularly during Admin. I have never lied to the other half about money so she knew I did it. Was she happy well not quite to be honest. I gave them my season ticket money on both occasions. Was she happy well not exactly. To now buy shares on the understanding I would never get anything back even the original outlay would be probably a step too far. If it was just me then perhaps I might go the opposite way to that but it isn't. There are going to be a fair number like me. If Hallett made £1m out of this idea then I think he will have done as well as could be expected. I'm not as convinced the expats would be as up for it as the local ones sadly.
     
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  5. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    I misspoke on taking cash out: he's made it this would be an issue of new shares, not a purchase of his. He's also said though that he's not putting any more in, given the £3.5m he put in to keep the club afloat during Covid.

    Given the need to secure a new defence and midfield to keep us in League 1 and to build on towards the Championship, cash will be needed from somewhere. After the Super League outrage, there's a lot of chat about fan participation and there's no better way to participate than to put some cash in!
     
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  6. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Just been reading the article in the Herald today by Hallett. The financial side of things is quite surprising isn't it. The fact an Insurance was taken out and we actually got a pay out of £2m from it and overall we are in a stronger position now than before. I have one problem with the revelations though. We all know what Argyle supporters are like when it comes to spending other peoples money. If you tell them too much and give the impression we have a bit of cash to splash then they will expect Lionel Messi on the next flight in. Raising the expectation too far is maybe not the best way to go. Despite the good news on offer though there were still comments in the comments section to the effect that we should all be gloomy. I do get fed up with reading some of the stuff people put online about Argyle. It seems there is no place for happiness when it comes to football in the City.

    However, having said the above the good news is we should still have a very competitive budget for the season to come and therefore it gives us options perhaps some other clubs won't have. We are though competing with larger clubs and more of them now given the content of the league after the ups and downs.
     
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  7. AWAY IN BC

    AWAY IN BC Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your info Mr.S
     
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  8. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Do you read any of the other sites BC?
     
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  9. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    Just seen the news that Joe Edwards has signed on a 2 year contract. Good news I think. Think he is one of our best players and he puts his heart into what he does, Two down and three to go.
     
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  10. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    Business interruption insurance is quite common but can be very expensive. It's an easy cost to cut and then regret it when you find you need it.

    Some insurers have been finding reasons in the small print for not paying out for Covid. That's a real shock isn't it, insurers wheedling their way out of a claim? So not only was PAFC insured but insured with a good company by the look of it.
     
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  11. AWAY IN BC

    AWAY IN BC Well-Known Member

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    No just yours and the prediction Guys.
     
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  12. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    I'd never heard of it before notdistant but then again I've never had to insure anything like a business. I suppose it's a bit similar to insuring yourself for sickness or loss of work as a self employed. I see a number of travel companies are telling people to basically sod off if they booked a holiday to an amber country. Not illegal and maybe in their very small print but morally it's not right. There will eventually be a backlash to all these businesses who think they can use the population to just recover losses. I am pleased to see my football club isn't one of them.

    I have noticed one thing over the last 3 or 4 weeks. The prices in some shops appear to have risen and in some cases dramatically percentage wise. One thing for example I used to buy for £1 became £1.50 overnight and is now £1.75. That's a huge rise. The result is I simply won't buy it anymore at all. Same reason I won't bother with a Weatherspoons pub.
     
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  13. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    You should log into the Herald and the club website BC. A lot of useful info comes up on there along with early news via pasoti. You don't have to join it to read it. Pasoti is good for info if you can look past the gloom and doom some people can't resist posting.
     
    #33
  14. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    With the Covid pandemonium seeming to be receding and the Chinese and American economies recovering rapidly, raw materials are rocketing in price. Oil for example...

    upload_2021-5-19_14-20-14.png

    I filled the car up on Monday and diesel is up 2p per litre over a single month. Roughly, I was paying £1.09 per litre a year ago, now it's £1.28.

    Added to that, prices for food and so on in the UK are being pushed up by the extra import costs caused by Brexit.
     
    #34
  15. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    Out of contract, offered new contract: Joe Edwards (new 2 year contract signed 18 May), Conor Grant, Ollie Tomlinson (new contract signed 17 May), Danny Mayor, Ryan Law.
     
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  16. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    I got an email today giving a link to the Share Issue Survey. It consists of two questions:
    1. How likely are you to invest?
    2. If you invest, how much would you be likely to subscribe?
    The stated aims are to enhance sustainable development e.g Academy facilities or ground improvements. Buying players or subsidising player wages are NOT listed.

    The survey doesn't seem to appear on the Club website, presumably so that outsiders with whom the Club doesn't have a relationship via ticket sales or IFollow can't interfere. Exeter City fans take note.
     
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  17. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    I received my season ticket in the post today. Not had a chance to sit and read whatever it was that came with it yet as have been busy setting up a game consul for her indoors. I'm not that good with electronic gadgets so it takes me a while to suss what needs to be done. Cracked it now though so will sit quietly soon and have a gander.

    Not received any email about share issues though. Maybe Mr Hallett reads not606 and knows already I will probably not take part. I think it was said previously when first mentioned that any monies gained were for the long term rather than spend it all on players now. You can see what is being planned a mile off though. The emphasis is now on youth talent and filling the Academy with saleable youngsters on a regular basis. The right way to go for me. Hence the funding improvement in things like the Academy and infrastructure. I think it was also meant to enhance the reserve pot just in case it all goes tits up again. I wouldn't personally argue with any of that aim.
     
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  18. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    First non resigning of the season completed. James Wilson a 32 year old defender from Ipswich. Was voted their player of the season despite only playing 17 games before getting a knee injury. Sounds like the sort of defender we need so hopefully the pessimists will not be jumping off the bridge. 2 year contract.
     
    #38
  19. notDistantGreen

    notDistantGreen Well-Known Member

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    Well and hopefully getting a couple of seasons from them first!

    This has to be the right way to go: decide on your style of football (entertaining, attacking, progressive), always have a manager how wants to play that way, bring the youngsters through and sell them on if they are that good. It's logical, it saves cost in the end as you don't end up having to screw the whole thing up and throw it into the bin every time you change the manager and you also don't end up ruining a lot of young careers because suddenly your face doesn't fit.

    https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/ipswich-town-james-wilson-exit-interview-7985058

    Not hanging about are we?
     
    #39
  20. sensiblegreeny

    sensiblegreeny Well-Known Member
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    For a local rag that is a pretty honest write up for a player. No hearts and flowers just saying it as it is. He also sounds like just the ticket we need. Like all players though time will tell when we kick off again.
     
    #40
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